Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2017/06/16

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Subject: [Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:57:25 -0400
References: <D1B7D7E7-EC4B-457E-B8A5-6182A8810FEE@gmail.com> <D567CF26.866F2%chris@chriscrawfordphoto.com> <7BC3A91E-801C-4770-A155-04A7CBFE1B46@gmail.com> <560A3690-E151-4BC8-A406-B37978CDD329@rabinergroup.com> <D7052609-2610-4233-AEC6-8CA3C4E44A5F@gmail.com> <EC15BE19-D6E0-46EA-B49C-4C2F0D6E8E79@rabinergroup.com> <CAEFt+w81O4EOv+RD51cvasO_HL3=_fwRscNQ=RwGZ15OgAAzXQ@mail.gmail.com>

I?m a big boy Dan I don?t use those silly plastic jobbies! They are for 
babies.
But the company which made the thicker steel reels I replaced my thinner 
ones in the 90?s was Jobo.
You think of them you think of plastic.

-- 

Mark William Rabiner
Photographer

On 6/15/17, 7:05 PM, "LUG on behalf of Dan Khong" 
<lug-bounces+mark=rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of dankhong 
at gmail.com> wrote:

    Mark
    
    Interesting! Did you roll them together in a stainless reel or in one of
    those Paterson plastic ones?
    
    Dan K.
    
    On Friday, June 16, 2017, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
    
    > Lluis I used to roll my film back to back two rolls in the same reel! 
And
    > taught my assistants to do it. A few of them were incredulous.  I got 
this
    > from a Bill Pierce column in Popular photography in the early 70?s it
    > worked.
    > But it makes Kodak?s recommendations as to limits of Xtol and puts 
them in
    > the dust.
    > I ran 8 rolls of 35mm film in a liter or quart of 1:3 Xtol.
    > Then dumped it down the drain. My times where close to what they should
    > have been.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Mark William Rabiner
    > Photographer
    >
    > On 6/15/17, 10:40 AM, "LUG on behalf of lluisripollphotography"
    > <lug-bounces+mark=rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org <javascript:;> on
    > behalf of lluisripollphotography at gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
    >
    >     Mark,
    >
    >     Thank you for useful information, very interesting to learn it! You
    > mention Delta 400, yes it is a great film, I?ve not use it after a 
while
    > and just the past days I was in the darkroom enlarging, the pics with 
this
    > one was very fine.
    >
    >     Your recomendation about testing dilution is also very interesting 
to
    > follow.
    >
    >     Thank you
    >     Lluis
    >
    >
    >
    >     > El 15 juny 2017, a les 14:25, Mark Rabiner <mark at 
rabinergroup.com
    > <javascript:;>> va escriure:
    >     >
    >     > If you Bing it or Google it for 15 minutes you?ll see the top,
    > smart, nice, funny spiritual people are all at 1:3. The ones whose 
prints
    > sold for the most money and who dressed better.
    >     > Diluting Xtol 1:3 instead of 1:2 ads a couple of more minutes to 
it
    > its way worth it. With that you get better edge caracteristics which is
    > directly linked to higher dilution. And other advantages I was using 
1:2
    > for a while and my prints were obviously worse.
    >     >
    >     > By the way in my college in the early 70?s in St. Louis, we did 
us
    > students who were always in the darkroom an unusual thing which I?d 
never
    > heard of other places. We all ran our film in D76 1:2 instead of 1:1. 
The
    > students who came in in the beginning of the year and ran the 
recommended
    > 1:1 and universal default had prints you could spot across the room as
    > being way less sharp. Way less edge. And way less sharp grain. But a 
tad
    > less grain. And they were not very nice people who told bad jokes. It
    > looked like they were shooting with Spiratone lenes.
    >     > A good policy is to dilute until you hit a point when you?re 
seeing
    > uneven development in your negs. Washed out areas. Then you back up a
    > notch. But you?ll ahead of time see what everyone else is doing.
    >     > Neopan Acros 100  Xtol 1:3 16? minutes 70 degrees? agitation 
every
    > minute and the first full minute.
    >     > All film listed here is 1:3 70 degrees F, agitation every minute 
10
    > seconds and the first full minute.
    >     > Delta 100    14?
    >     > Delta 3200  16?
    >     > Delta 400     14? Neopan 1600 RIP my main film when out and about
    > shooting for myself. Even with a Noctilux.   12 minutes and looks like 
an
    > iso 100 film. And here you are shooting it on the street. No tripod. I 
used
    > it for on location commercial jobs no flash or tripod. The 100 with the
    > studio strobes in the studio. Delta 100 from Ilford as just about as 
good.
    >     > Neopan Acros 100 16 ? as high a rez film anyone would ever want 
or
    > need in Xtol 1:3
    >     > Get a tank so you can develop 8 rolls at a time or I can see your
    > point and wanting to keep shorter times.
    >     > You?ll shoot more with a big boy tank.
    >     > Pan F 50, they still make it.  12?
    >     > Tri X 400  11?
    >     > Tri X Pro 320 in 120 or 220 format, 15?
    >     > All the other times here is for 35mm format. Times are different 
for
    > different formats why no one knows.
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > --
    >     >
    >     > Mark William Rabiner
    >     > Photographer
    >     >
    >     > On 6/15/17, 7:32 AM, "LUG on behalf of lluisripollphotography"
    > <lug-bounces+mark=rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org <javascript:;> on
    > behalf of lluisripollphotography at gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
    >     >
    >     >    Chris, Dan
    >     >
    >     >    I will do 1+1 on my next two films, I want avoid long 
develping
    > times. I?ve used HC110 many years ago, but I liked better ID11/D76
    >     >
    >     >    Cheers
    >     >    Lluis
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >> El 15 juny 2017, a les 11:49, Christopher Crawford <
    > chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com <javascript:;>> va escriure:
    >     >>
    >     >> Its been years since I used Xtol. I never really liked the 
tonality
    > as
    >     >> much as D-76, though Xtol does give finer grain. I got best 
results
    >     >> diluted 1+1.
    >     >>
    >     >> Be careful with higher dilutions. Kodak, when it first came out,
    > listed
    >     >> times for 1+2 and 1+3 dilutions. A lot of photographers got 
severely
    >     >> underdeveloped negs with those dilutions, using Kodak?s times.
    > Turns out,
    >     >> Xtol cannot stand being diluted that much unless you develop the
    > film in a
    >     >> much larger tank than you normally need. I think there had to be
    > 200ml of
    >     >> stock in the diluted developer for each roll, so for 1+3
    > developing, you
    >     >> could do only one roll in a 32ox tank that could hold four 
rolls!
    >     >>
    >     >> Kodak published the minimum stock quantity needed but a lot of
    > people
    >     >> ignored it and complained, so they just stopped publishing the
    > times for
    >     >> the higher dilutions!
    >     >>
    >     >> I actually have a copy in PDF format of the original Xtol info
    > booklet,
    >     >> but the times would be off for Kodak films now since Kodak
    > reformulated
    >     >> Tri-X and the Tmax films since then. They did publish times for
    > Ilford
    >     >> films, which might still work if you?re interested in seeing it.
    >     >>
    >     >> --
    >     >> Chris Crawford
    >     >> Fine Art Photography
    >     >> Fort Wayne, Indiana
    >     >> 260-437-8990
    >     >>
    >     >> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio
    >     >>
    >     >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
    >     >> Become a fan on Facebook
    >     >>
    >     >>
    >     >>
    >     >> On 6/15/17, 5:15 AM, "LUG on behalf of lluisripollphotography"
    >     >> <lug-bounces+chris=chriscrawfordphoto.com at leica-users.org
    > <javascript:;> on behalf of
    >     >> lluisripollphotography at gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
    >     >>
    >     >>> I don?t have a large experience with Xtol, I?ve used for years
    > ID11/D76.
    >     >>> I?ve developed my two last films of Bergger Pancro 400 in Xtol
    > Stock at
    >     >>> the recomended time, but I?m unhappy with the results. I?ve 
used
    > it in
    >     >>> stock to get the shortest developing time and minimize the 
grain
    > effect.
    >     >>>
    >     >>> I would like hear your experiences with Xtol, I mainly use FP4 
and
    > HP5.
    >     >>>
    >     >>> Thanks in advance
    >     >>>
    >     >>> Lluis
    >     >>>
    >     >>>
    >     >>>
    >     >>> _______________________________________________
    >     >>> Leica Users Group.
    >     >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
    > information
    >     >>
    >     >>
    >     >>
    >     >> _______________________________________________
    >     >> Leica Users Group.
    >     >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
    > information
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >    _______________________________________________
    >     >    Leica Users Group.
    >     >    See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
    > information
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > _______________________________________________
    >     > Leica Users Group.
    >     > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
information
    >
    >
    >     _______________________________________________
    >     Leica Users Group.
    >     See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
information
    >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > Leica Users Group.
    > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
    
    _______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from lluisripollphotography at gmail.com (lluisripollphotography) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)
Message from chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com (Christopher Crawford) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)
Message from lluisripollphotography at gmail.com (lluisripollphotography) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)
Message from lluisripollphotography at gmail.com (lluisripollphotography) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)
Message from dankhong at gmail.com (Dan Khong) ([Leica] Xtol recomended dilutions)