Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/12/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Henning, It would appear that you've acquired a 5D Mark II. I had hoped for a more enthusiastic report. Can you tell me more re: comparing the image files between 5D and Mk II? You seem to infer that they're still a bit mushy and/or plasticy (pardon my non tech terms). I'm down to just the 24 to 70 L and 70 to 200 L IS - do you have experience with these two lenses on the Mk II? Fond regards, George george@imagist.com http://www.imagist.com http://www.imagist.com/blog http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist On Dec 21, 2008, at 3:29 AM, Henning Wulff wrote: > Jayanand, I don't think the demand for the M8 is price inelastic > (I'm not Frank, nor do I speak for him, but I will jump in). It > just provides appropriate value, especially if you've acquired an > appreciation for the results of Leica optics. This is a hard sell, > but I don't think Leica would sell enough more M8's at 75% (say) of > the current selling price to make enough difference for them. > Rangefinders are just enough of an oddity right now that I don't > think a somewhat lower price would have done much for them. > Suggesting a price at 50% or lower of the actual selling price > would seem a bit naiive. You can't make up a loss on each item by > selling in greater quantities. > > There is no ideal digital camera. There is no ideal film camera. > There is only a camera which is a bit better for taking the > pictures that you want/can/aspire to take. > > The M8 is such a camera for a lot of the things I want to shoot for > myself. It does not do much for my professional photography, but I > enjoy both the shooting and the results from the M8 more than those > I get from the 5D and now the 5D MkII. The choices Leica has made > with the camera body and the quality of the Leica lenses make the > files sing. The Canon has problems. > > I still shoot 4x5 and panoramic formats on film and get them > scanned; I still shoot B&W 35mm on M6, M7, MDa, etc but the > majority of my discretionary shooting is with the M8. I have the > best that Canon has to offer in lenses, and I'll get the 21 Zeiss > when it becomes available, but the Canons have a tough row to hoe > to compete with the M8. > > The 5D MkII FF raw files are up to 40Mb in size, yet they can't > beat the content of the Leica 1.3x crop 10.1Mb files. It's like > scanning 800 ISO 35mm film at 5400dpi and getting a 250Mb 16 bit > file and finding out it doesn't have as much info as a 6 megapixel > DSLR raw file. > > Size only matters if it actually contains something significant. If > the Canon had WA lenses that were good, and if it didn't soften the > images at the sensor or software too much, then it would outdo the > Leica. As it is, the 5D MkII has excellent low light performance > (pretty much equivalent to the D700 or D3 if the file is reduced to > 12Mpixels), lots of features, a great movie mode etc, but few > lenses to truly exploit the 21Mp sensor. Under most conditions, it > can't outperform the M8 because the M8 has no smearing in the > sensor/basic processing and it has outstanding lenses. Yes, the 5D > has great 6400 ISO performance, but it does not have great ISO 400 > performance compared with the M8. More of my pictures require ISO > 400 than 6400, and it's likely to remain that way. So the M8 works, > and the 5DMkII lags. It appears likely to remain that way for a > while, so the M8 comes out on top and the price one has to pay, all > things considered, seems reasonable. I'd like it to be lower, but I > realize that I have to subsidize the R&D as well as the production > costs. I don't think it's an unfair 'ripoff' price. It's also > enough better than the only remote alternative, the RD-1, to > justify the price. > > > > > > >> Frank, >> Are you saying the demand for the M8 is price inelastic? My view >> is that it >> may well be today, in the present economic climate, but at >> introduction, >> when the Leica cachet would have sold easily, a lower price would >> have >> translated into a larger installed base by now. I really hope that >> the S2 >> system does well, considering the recession in the midst of which >> it will be >> born... >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Frank Dernie >> <Frank.Dernie@btinternet.com>wrote: >> >>> My opinion is that the market is so small for a digi-rangefinder >>> that none >>> will ever fly off the shelves. If the sales had been good enough >>> to pay for >>> the development of the camera and a bit of profit the service >>> would have >>> been good and there would have been RD2 and RD3 by now. Cosina/ >>> Voigtlander >>> would have continued if Epson did not. >>> IMO the opinion that the M8 is overpriced profiteering is >>> mistaken. At the >>> market size for such a product the volume they produce will >>> always be tiny >>> and the tooling and R&D costs have to be amortised over a few >>> units. It >>> could well be a loss leader to sell more lenses :-) >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> >>> On 20 Dec, 2008, at 23:32, Richard Man wrote: >>> >>> The alignment problem is exaggerated. It was very easy to fix >>> by oneself. >>>> If >>>> they price is at $1500 to $2000, it may have flown off the >>>> shelves. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Harrison McClary >>>> <lists@mcclary.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> If it had not had all the problems I read about then I'd have >>>> gotten one. >>>>> But the stories about poor rangefinder alignment, and things >>>>> like that >>>>> kept >>>>> me away...also it was not exactly in the category I was taking >>>>> about, if >>>>> I >>>>> remember it was around 3 grand new. They are still 1500 used >>>>> or so...I'd >>>>> rather save a few more pennies and get a used M8 with all I >>>>> have hear >>>>> about >>>>> the RD1. Now had the RD1 been a decent camera with good customer >>>>> support...that'd have made a difference to me. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> // richard m: richard @imagecraft.com >>>> // b: http://richardfman.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > -- > > * Henning J. Wulff > /|\ Wulff Photography & Design > /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com > |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information