Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/12/19

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Subject: [Leica] un-believable
From: mark at (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Fri Dec 19 22:22:20 2008

Talking about the "quality" of the M8 sensor against the "quality" of the
sensors most serious amateurs and pros are using is a blurring of a
simplification of the issue.
Like talking about the "Quality" of a film Hasselblad over a Canon camera.
Or the "Quality" of a Nikon over an Olympus FT.
"Quality" has surprisingly little to do with it.
Its real estate. And not location location location but:
Size of the plot. Acreage. Square feet. Square yards. Meter.
The build of the camera has little to do with it.
The wonderfulness of how flat it holds the film....

A cheap termite ridden 4x5 will give a way superior image over roll film
every time... With a fungus ridden optic on it. It doesn't even have to try
very hard.  Tap dance on your wet negs on your darkroom floor. Its hard to
mess of the brilliant superiority of sheet film.

The M8 is a half frame camera. Digital. But half frame
The rest of the serious shooting world has moved up to full 24x36 frame.
The sensor can be really great which I'm sure it is but its not going to go
up against a sensor twice its length across.
It's not going to go up against a HALF ASSED sensor twice its length across.

In another time warp dimension What if Barnack decided not to go "double
frame" which was what 24x36 was then called then but was intractable in the
ongoing working movie film frame size at the time called "single frame" or
We'd not be talking about Barnack at this point because no one would have
heard of him and this would be the Leica historic list not the Leica users
Leica would have been quickly eclipsed by Nikon and Canon and Pentax in the
30's and it would be a distant memory of a microscope company who made real
high quality half frame cameras in the 20's then went under in the 30's
And that's what could happen now.
With the S2 aimed squarely at one out of 100 thousand pros and serious
amateurs who have a decimal point less cash to blow on gear than is the
price point of the S2.
20,000 big E's.

What does Leica have which is going to go up against a Nikon D3, D3x or D700
with a 14-24 2.8 ultra wide zoom on it
or a Canon full frame with their ultra wide zoom on it? ......
.... A Zoom Super Wide Angle EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM AutoFocus Lens?

(whatever Canon has which is going to go up against Nikons 14-24 2.8 you're
going to have to tune in next week for. As that's how long it will take
Canon to reply to the Nikon challenge. NOT the end of next summer)
Days not seasons.
Mark William Rabiner

> From: Lottermoser George <>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <>
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:24:41 -0600
> To: Leica Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] un-believable
> I'll take the fine detail and dynamic range
> over
> the high ISO auto noise reduction
> every time
> Would I like ISO 64,000 with no noise
> AND the M8 detail and dynamic range
> You bet. Maybe someday I'll have it.
> For now. Simply love the M8 and the photographs it produces.
> Fond regards,
> George
> On Dec 19, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Sonny Carter wrote:
>>> The M8 has been out since 2006. So has the D80. Each camera has 10.1
>>> megapixels, decent noise per ISO, but the price was very different.
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information

Replies: Reply from imagist3 at (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] Quality (was un-believable))
Reply from mak at (Mark Kronquist) ([Leica] 4-6" Snow in PDX)
Reply from photo at (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] un-believable)
Reply from simon.apekop at (simon jessurun) ([Leica] un-believable)
Reply from images at (Tina Manley) ([Leica] un-believable)
In reply to: Message from imagist3 at (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] un-believable)