Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/03/03

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Subject: [Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited
From: photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:26:07 +0100
References: <36172e5a1003021807sc386aag5660bae386eaa8cb@mail.gmail.com> <FA42BD7C-6A39-4634-BE39-0E7EBC9C4101@frozenlight.eu> <CCE9B5F7B58242C9B4632272CB0039A3@jimnichols> <36172e5a1003022216y71538c5bv2bc5b2c4d5467572@mail.gmail.com> <7886F22A-B999-4B38-9656-305D768282CD@frozenlight.eu> <36172e5a1003030037x52e47dc7lde9e2cd9c0cbac85@mail.gmail.com>

You are mixing two different things, Geoff. The supersonic wave filter does 
not move the sensor and I do not see why Leica would not adapt it except for 
the usual "not invented here" syndrome. IS is what moves the sensor around 
in an E3, and I agree that this is one feature that Leica can do without and 
that I generally do not use even on cameras that have it.

Cheers,
Nathan

Nathan Wajsman
Alicante, Spain
http://www.frozenlight.eu
http://www.greatpix.eu
http://www.nathanfoto.com

Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog






On Mar 3, 2010, at 9:37 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:

> Well I was being flippant, but does it not have IS also???????.
> You have a supersonic wave filter in front of the sensor assembly for
> repelling dust, yes. Most Olys have a Supersonic Wave Drive (it's a 
> stepping
> motor system in the E620) which is used for the image stabilisation
> system. The whole sensor assembly is moved in at least two planes. That
> sensor ain't nailed down ;-). In any caser, fill your boots ;-) I was just
> commenting on my personal preference for the way Leica does it. Actually I
> would think that it would be technically difficult if not impossible to fit
> such systems into an M. The S2 does not have it either and of course there
> is rather more room in there.
> Who knows what future Leica camera may have in there. But it won't be an M
> any longer if it moves to LiveView and IS and EVFs and the rest of it. You
> are right that those things are virtually standard in the mainstream dSLRs.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Geoff
> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
> M is for Messsucher
> 
> 
> On 3 March 2010 16:44, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> wrote:
> 
>> Geoff, I am never held back from using my M8 either. I am careful about
>> where and how I change lenses here in dusty Spain, but otherwise no 
>> problem.
>> 
>> However, why do you call the Oly system "vibrating sensor"? It is an
>> ultrasound thingie, the sensor does not vibrate AFAIK. Like that other Oly
>> innovation, LiveView, I think it will become more or less standard on
>> interchangeable lens cameras.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Nathan
>> 
>> Nathan Wajsman
>> Alicante, Spain
>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>> 
>> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>> 
>>> I used my M8 for two years and about 9000 frames with no difficulties
>> with
>>> routine cleans. This is nothing more than a procedural hiccup. I've found
>>> one brand and method that's perfect for me. It doesn't do to stress over
>>> this stuff!
>>> I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone not use their M or consider
>> that
>>> the need for sensor cleaning should deter anyone from using ANY digital
>>> camera with interchangeable lenses.
>>> My personal prefernce is for Leica's sensor and its very precise
>> calibration
>>> within the body rather than any vibrating system.  Your cyclic rate may
>>> vary, people ;-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> Geoff
>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 3 March 2010 15:55, Jim Nichols <jhnichols at lighttube.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Much as I envy the M8/M9 users, these recent cleaning tales make me more
>>>> pleased every day that I am using a couple of Oly E-thingies.  I am
>> happy to
>>>> keep things very simple.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Nichols
>>>> Tullahoma, TN USA
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Wajsman" <
>> photo at frozenlight.eu>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:46 PM
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Wow, this sounds scary Geoff. I bet several doses of "blood pressure
>>>>> medication" were needed during and after this process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Because of tales like this, I have a simple rule: never put any liquid
>> on
>>>>> the sensor, never touch it with anything wet. I use Sensor Scope. The
>> kit
>>>>> does contain liquid and swabs but I have never used them; the little
>> vacuum
>>>>> cleaner has until now been adequate on my M8 and before that on my
>> Canon
>>>>> cameras. Of course, with Olympus I did not need any sensor cleaning
>> thanks
>>>>> to the built-in dust removal system. I wish Leica had the same thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:07 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I had a recent exchnge on and off list regarding cleaning the M9
>> sensor.
>>>>>> When I just cleaned mine ( which has not had heavy use), I was
>> dismayed
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> find that I had persistent streaks, some of which looked alarmingly
>> like
>>>>>> fine scratches.
>>>>>> I was confident that I had been careful. I used the Arctic butterfly
>>>>>> brush
>>>>>> first to remove any loose dust and then did a careful wet pass with
>>>>>> Visible
>>>>>> Dust Plus. I only had 1.3x size swabs.
>>>>>> The streaks remained after 3 separate cleaning cycles with new swabs
>> each
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> I repeated this all with the Dust Aid kit which uses swabs that you
>> need
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> manually wind around the spatula and their fluid. Same result. My
>> Leica
>>>>>> dealer repeated this, same result.
>>>>>> We could not budge the easily visible streaks although they were
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>> undetectable on test images at high magnification on a monitor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Today I repeated the dry clean folowed by a wet clean with the Eclipse
>>>>>> type
>>>>>> 3 (size) swab and their fluid. They no longer consider the E2 fluid
>>>>>> necessary for tin oxide sensors and recommend their standard fluid for
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> sensor.
>>>>>> A single pass in each direction completely removed every trace of the
>>>>>> streaks and I am a happy camper. I believe that the streaks I had were
>>>>>> either traces of oil, possibly from the swab touching the surrounds of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> sensor (shutter lubricant??), drying marks from the fluids used (qty?)
>> or
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> combination of both.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I note that the Eclipse fluid contains methanol.
>>>>>> Visible Dust fluid does not and they state that methanol can damage
>> the
>>>>>> seal
>>>>>> of the covering bonded to the sensor.
>>>>>> Leica recommends isopropyl alcohol.
>>>>>> In any event I wanted to report my experiences. I'm sure that others
>> will
>>>>>> have had different experiences and views. Incidentally the Eclipse
>> swabs
>>>>>> actually cost even more here than the Visible Dust products so that
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> please those who considered I was skimping by trying the Dust aid
>> swabs
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> my Visible Dust ones (M8 size) ran out!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 



Replies: Reply from leowesson at gmail.com (leo wesson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
In reply to: Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)