Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/10/08
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]This is no mechanical piano or music Jayanand, nor sampling. inside ;-) There is of course a human factor - many human factors when you multiply the musicians - a question of technique, of understanding (or trying to) the composer's intent, of using the "right" instruments (contemporaneous with the composer, or new ones, for instance), of how the instruments were made, and by whom. Of voice quality (when listening to jazz music nobody would confuse Ella Fitzgerald with Sarah Vaughan, or in other territories Bing Crosby with Sinatra, likewise few amateurs mix up Maria Callas and Cecilia Bartoli, or Placido Domingo and Pavarotti ). Think also that the tempo may change from one conductor to another (their appreciation of what it should sound like). But also some musicians didn't leave scores detailed enough to prevent uncertainty. More, the value of the basic key frequency has changed over time. The list is not exhautive. And each performance is consequently unique, as it is in India (I love Indian music too BTW). Some performances have been recorded on disc (or LP, or other so imperfect technical devices). This is what we were trying to compare. But we always miss so much by not being there when the music is played, and in this, I can only fully agree with you. My tip - get any classical piece of music that appeals to you. Listen to it repeatedly until you think you can whistle it by heart. Then, and only then, buy another version of the same piece.(different period for the recording, different musicians, different singers if it is a vocal piece). Play it. You might feel that you 're with an alien piece of music even though the label says it is the same. Richer in some parts (hopefully) and lacking in other ones (see above). You'll then have felt what "interpretation means. You can then keep on buying the same piece by a third, fourth etc, orchestra. Each will be different. Yours Phil...x (Jazz : I have 27 versions of "The man I love" , all different, but only four different Magic Flute by Mozart LoL :-D ) Jayanand Govindaraj wrote: >Just a question, not meant to be anything other than a query - how come you >guys find western classical music so interesting? I find it beautiful but >sterile at heart, compared to jazz or Indian classical music - the latter is >about 95% improvised and single pieces can last up to 2-3 hours. So the >performer needs quite an active interpretive musical brain (and physical >stamina) to hold his audience's attention, at least during live concerts, >which can last all night. Jazz is similar. > >I have yet to understand what interpretation means in something that is >always played as written. Can someone educate me, perhaps with a few >recordings to purchase to illustrate the point? > >Cheers >Jayanand > >On 10/8/07, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp@gmx.de> wrote: > > >>I believe I have it on vinyl - I'll have to get my old records sorted, >>they're still in boxes after we had the living room re-floored and >>redecorated. I know I have quite a few records of the Vienna >>Philharmonic and Kletzki, but I'm no longer sure exactly what. >> >>I'm currently listening to poems by Blake set to jazz and choral music >>by Mike Westbrook (well, I suppose it's jazz, but with Mike and Kate >>Westbrook I'm never too sure, they drift around in all sorts of >>directions from free improvisation to bebop, quoting Ellington, Parker >>and Mingus on the way, take a short trip into blues and come out at the >>other side in vaudeville, a classical vein, William Tell, Abbey Road or >>Charles Ives and Messiaen. Weird stuff to get your head around, but >>ultimately very satisfying. >>Best from Hannover >>Douglas >> >>Joseph wrote: >> >> >>>Douglas >>> >>>Have you heard the version by Istvan Kertesz with the VPO? >>> >>>Joseph Low / Singapore >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: lug-bounces+joelct=singnet.com.sg@leica-users.org >>>[mailto:lug-bounces+joelct=singnet.com.sg@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of >>>Douglas Sharp >>>Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 8:29 PM >>>To: Leica Users Group >>>Subject: Re: [Leica] Never judge a book by its cover: Brahms, Mahler >>> >>>Seems to be something to do with Hamburg :-) >>>Brahms earned his money as a brothel pianist and everyone hated Mahler - >>>including Mahler ;-) >>> >>>Love 'em both - JB's "Variations on a theme from Haydn" was always one >>>of my all time favourites since my childhood, and still is. >>>Brahms "German Requiem" is nearly on a par with Faure's for me. Mahler >>>is something superb for dreary autumnal sunday afternoons. >>> >>>Although now I'm much more more partial to Bruckner, Britten, Copland, >>>Ives, Hindemith, Janacek, Milhaud,Villa-Lobos, some Bermstein and just >>>about anybody's Requiem, Mass or Stabat Mater for serious listening and >>>Delius, Dvorak, Poulenc, Lefebure-Wely and Louis Moreau Gottschalk for >>>lighter moments (nearly forgot William Bolcom's piano rags - absolutely >>>brilliant!!). >>> >>>Douglas >>> >>>BTW, I love choral music - a tradition in Yorkshire - being part of >>>"Sounding Brass and Voices" performing Parry's Jerusalem is a >>>breathtaking experience - but I could never get much further than >>>glorious Gilbert & Sullivan - my mother was an accompanist for the Leeds >>>Gilbert and Sullivan Society, so it was permanent background music at >>>home - (and PDQ Bach :-) ) when it comes to opera/operetta. >>> >>>Philippe Orlent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Brahms digs too deep in the mind for me... >>>>He's an instable romantic, I guess ;-) >>>>Philippe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Op 7-okt-07, om 01:33 heeft Luis Ripoll het volgende geschreven: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>From Sacred Cantata No.2? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Now I'm listening Christa Ludwig on Brahms Lieder, at the piano the >>>>>great >>>>>Gerald Moore... >>>>>Luis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Mensaje original----- >>>>>De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org >>>>>[mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org] En >>>>>nombre de >>>>>Philippe Orlent >>>>>Enviado el: domingo, 07 de octubre de 2007 1:24 >>>>>Para: Leica Users Group >>>>>Asunto: Re: [Leica] Never judge a book by its cover >>>>> >>>>>Bach's 'Tilge, H?chster, Meine S?nden' isn't bad either ;-) Philippe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Op 7-okt-07, om 01:19 heeft Luis Ripoll het volgende geschreven: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Philippe, >>>>>> >>>>>>This is a coincidence, this evening I've listened three times >>>>>>Pergolesi's Stabat Mater (Mirella Freni & Teresa Berganza)... >>>>>> >>>>>>Saludos cordiales >>>>>>Luis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Mensaje original----- >>>>>>De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org >>>>>>[mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org] En >>>>>>nombre de Philippe Orlent Enviado el: domingo, 07 de octubre de 2007 >>>>>>1:12 >>>>>>Para: Leica Users Group >>>>>>Asunto: Re: [Leica] Never judge a book by its cover >>>>>> >>>>>>I agree with the tune, Steve. One of the better classic popsongs it >>>>>>is. >>>>>>But about Nessun Dorma: I prefer to hear it sung by f.i. Andreas >>>>>>Sch?nberg, who sings it more soberly and with modesty. >>>>>>Which fits Nessun Dorma perfectly. It 's the difficulty with Italian >>>>>>music of this period: most of the time it's so overly melodramatic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>and >> >> >>>>>>bombastic (the big feelings) that it becomes almost painful, unless >>>>>>sung with some >>>>>>reservation* :-) Then I prefer Pergolesi's Stabat Mater f.i. >>>>>>Or all those German and Austrian composers that excelled in bringing >>>>>>sheer emotion without getting preposterous. >>>>>> >>>>>>So at least they were good at something :-P (big smiley here) >>>>>> >>>>>>Philippe >>>>>> >>>>>>* That's why I never really liked Pavarotti: to much cheap pathos. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Op 7-okt-07, om 00:39 heeft Steve Unsworth het volgende geschreven: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have to say I was expecting the worst - especially knowing that >>>>>>>these programs regularly include terrible singers to help the >>>>>>>ratings. >>>>>>>Yes he was >>>>>>>raw, no he will never make it as an opera singer, but he had passion >>>>>>>and commitment, and let's be honest it's one hell of a tune. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 6/10/07 23:10, "Tina Manley" <images@comporium.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I'm glad you weren't one of the judges! What were you expecting >>>>>>>>from a cell phone salesman who has never had formal voice training? >>>>>>>>Of course you have heard better Nessun Dormas from professional >>>>>>>>opera singers with voice training. I think his performance was awe >>>>>>>>inspiring and gives great encouragement to everybody with a dream. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Leica Users Group. >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > >