Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/03/22

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Subject: [Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim
From: jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:25:14 +0530
References: <CAEve6XiQM6KEE5QJ-V8aGWXrdf7VhGnOW5YN0N5Fucb5R_+vLw@mail.gmail.com> <7F4CB3A3-29D1-4B12-A47E-2E60CB624BEB@archiphoto.com> <03AF1AE058804ED8B313B7A8BDD97087@KorhonenPC> <4F6BAF73.1090509@cox.net> <75A33B3A-56E0-47C7-98CF-67CD2D9689BC@frozenlight.eu> <4F6BCBB1.1030606@cox.net>

Ken,
Take a look at Singapore to see how high forced savings rates (not tax) can
benefit an albeit small country. There are many advantages in high tax -
nobody actually minds if you get commensurate quality public sector
services. It is tax without anything efficient in return in terms of public
sector services (like India) that  is intolerable - in fact we seem to have
the worst of both worlds in basic stuff like health and education.
Cheers
Jayanand

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 6:32 AM, Ken Carney <kcarney1 at cox.net> wrote:

> Yes, but that marginal federal rate does not begin until taxable income
> somewhere around USD200,000.  If you are paying an aggregate rate of 46%,
> that is a much higher income than $200,000.  In Finland, you would reach
> that federal rate at about ?70,000.  Then there are the local, municipal
> and church taxes which will close to double that.  We could build
> comparative tax tables but I imagine the folks in Finland are being taxed
> out the wazoo.  Offsetting that, yes, my kids and grandkids went to good
> private schools from elementary school onward, which cost $$$$.  However,
> the alternative was sending them to gangland.  It is far from the (I would
> say mythical) "1-percenters" who are sending their children to private
> schools - it is committed parents who will sacrifice half their income to
> bypass the public system.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On 3/22/2012 6:15 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>
>> When I lived in NJ, I had to pay a federal tax of 31% plus a state tax of
>> 7% (starting with the first dollar), a Social Security tax and Medicare 
>> tax
>> adding up to 9% or so (also from the first dollar)--for a total of 46%, 
>> for
>> which I got nothing except invasions of countries I did not care about 
>> etc.
>> I was lucky that we lived in a town with good public schools, so I did not
>> need to pay exorbitant fees at the local private school for the
>> 1-percenters.
>>
>> Nathan Wajsman
>> Alicante, Spain
>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> Blog: 
>> http://nathansmusings.**wordpress.com/<http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/>
>>
>>
>> YNWA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:02 AM, Ken Carney wrote:
>>
>>  Not too sure about the free part. According to my BNA country portfolio
>>> on Finland, the marginal tax rate (national, local, municipal and church
>>> taxes) hits about 50% on income between ?38,000 and 66,000 and is over 
>>> 55%
>>> on income in excess of ?66,000. Then there is a VAT. I'm not going to
>>> complain on April 15 this year!
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> On 3/22/2012 2:07 AM, Raimo K wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, university education is free in Finland (like all other education
>>>> as well).
>>>> The Americans may call it socialism (but it isn't), we call it equal
>>>> opportunities.
>>>> In the future we may have to charge tuition fees from students outside
>>>> the EU, though.
>>>> All the best!
>>>> Raimo K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Henning Wulff
>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:20 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's nearly as bad here in Canada. Tuition fees rise well beyond any
>>>> concept of inflation. Meanwhile our education minister goes off to 
>>>> China to
>>>> promote Canada as a place to come and get educated (for a price).
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, in the public schools....
>>>> We've just legislation from our provincial government denying the
>>>> teachers any pay increases for the next while and at the same time
>>>> retroactively taking away a number of hard won limits on class sizes, 
>>>> help
>>>> for teachers with special needs students and other advances achieved in 
>>>> the
>>>> last ten years. The legislation specifically states this 10 year
>>>> retroactive roll back.
>>>>
>>>> Our premier meanwhile sends her son off to private school. She can
>>>> afford it, as the pay raises for all the legislature has been 
>>>> substantially
>>>> above the rate of inflation, and about as drastic as the increase in
>>>> university fees.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2012-03-21, at 2:05 PM, scleroplex wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  exactly!!
>>>>>
>>>>> everyone is talking about the rise in healthcare costs.
>>>>> no one is comparing the rate of rise of higher education costs.
>>>>> it is 6 times that of health care!
>>>>>
>>>>> all the universities are raking it in and putting up flashy buildings
>>>>> with
>>>>> gay abandon.
>>>>> and no one is even looking at abuse of HEFA loans, which is as big a
>>>>> scandal as mortgage loans if not bigger.
>>>>>
>>>>> university boards are packed with real estate developers who get HEFA
>>>>> loans
>>>>> from the government and spend the money on construction projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> a good percentage of the loans are also invested in the capital
>>>>> markets by
>>>>> university endowment funds and multiplied.
>>>>> essentially rolling cheap tax money.
>>>>> when there is a profit, the university keeps it.
>>>>> when there is a loss, it is a public write-off.
>>>>>
>>>>> nowadays whenever i see students and their parents touring the
>>>>> universities
>>>>> here in boston,
>>>>> i only think, here are the next lot of mugs!
>>>>> these are the people who are deliberately left in huge debt,
>>>>> which they then concentrate on paying off the next 30 years,
>>>>> with no time for the policing of democracy at the local or national
>>>>> level.
>>>>>
>>>>> bharani
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 16
>>>>> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:07:49 +0530
>>>>> From: Jayanand Govindaraj<jayanand at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group<lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <CAH1UNJ1=+AvJ7=jCJXTvdUnRM7o4**DyhFqgib_OiKAHsMVxGP4g at mail.**
>>>>> gmail.com <jCJXTvdUnRM7o4DyhFqgib_OiKAHsMVxGP4g at mail.gmail.com>>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>
>>>>> It is still considered a part of the parent's duty to fully educate
>>>>> their
>>>>> offspring here in India (I am talking lower middle class and above
>>>>> here).
>>>>> Of course, there is some self preservation involved, as it is still
>>>>> considered a part of the offspring's duty to look after the parents in
>>>>> their old age. My parents in law have always stayed with me, and my
>>>>> parents
>>>>> with my brother - and they have done so for the past 20-25 years. The
>>>>> old
>>>>> joint family systems have not noticeably broken down as yet, though in
>>>>> urban India it is starting to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as the USA is concerned, it is my considered view that the only
>>>>> bubble that has not collapsed yet is in education - both in terms of
>>>>> affordability, and the sheer weight of student loan debt that has no
>>>>> chance
>>>>> of being repaid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Jayanand
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See 
>>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>>  more information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Henning Wulff
>>>> henningw at archiphoto.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See 
>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>  more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See 
>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>  more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See 
>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>  more information
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See 
>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>  more information
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See 
> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>  more information
>


Replies: Reply from joelct at singnet.com.sg (Joseph Low) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)
In reply to: Message from scleroplex at gmail.com (scleroplex) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)
Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)
Message from raimo.m.korhonen at uusikaupunki.fi (Raimo K) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Fuji X-Pro1 - Jim)