Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/03/09

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Subject: [Leica] Leica prices
From: passaro.vince at gmail.com (Vince Passaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:32:41 -0500
References: <6a7544a61003090935h2718fcacy6bf5e67d0a3d0725@mail.gmail.com> <20100309133105.4a241b2f@linux-0ifi.site> <C360DA63-FF6B-45F2-9EB1-73F3B01210A7@mac.com> <20100309141734.055654b6@linux-0ifi.site> <26366975-D7BD-4E6A-B775-34E3EE3CB0B7@mac.com> <20100309144016.17f656f9@linux-0ifi.site> <C7544612-BD2C-4CF1-9992-A755CA7D692D@sfr.fr> <9DF84A18-9B26-4A03-A9C7-C8BF69BC3E9F@gmail.com> <20100309150317.1945cf6e@linux-0ifi.site>

We Luggers, we're like a club of Cleopatra's rejected lovers. We can't get
over her, we can't forgive her. And her beauty and power only grows. Of
course that story ends badly but the great thing about metaphors is you can
cut them off before the end ---

Two different points were originally raised: Leica pricing and its branding.
First pricing:

Today on B&H site (get to 'em before Pesach kids they're closed for nine
days):

Leica M9                             7000
Nikon 3Dx                           7600
Nikon D3s                           5200
Nikon d700                          2400
Nikon D90 (1.5 crop)              780
Canon 5D Mark II                 2500
Canon 1D Mark IV (1.3 crop) 5000
SONY A900                         2600
SONY A850                         2000

Those are all the 35mm equivalent full frame sensors I know of. For fun I've
thrown in DxOmark's raw file analysis' two highest ranking cropped sensor
cameras. (Yes, the D90 significantly outperforms the D300 which at $1300 is
almost twice the price; the Canons and SONYs and such are well behind).

Now, if you are a serious photographer who loves and is committed to
rangefinder photography and want to work in digital format why is $7000
overpriced, given this list? Keep in mind that as recently as a couple of
years ago people believed full frame digital in a rangefinder was
technically not possible in the foreseeable future.  While there are
complaints about certain firmware issues basically the vast majority of
photographers who test the M9 say it is superb.

The R&D that Leica puts into optics is probably roughly equal in scope
across the decades but the resources and time and labor needed to figure out
how to make an M9 versus making an M3 (which in 1966 cost $1400 in 2010
dollars) must be huge.  The demand for the camera is also huge, and demand,
even we poets know, raises prices inevitably.  I wouldn't have been
surprised if they'd marketed the M9 at 8K or even higher.

Now, branding.  Once upon a legendary time professional photographers used
German rangefinder cameras. Then they didn't anymore, for a host of reasons:
and by the late 70s Leica was no longer a source of professional cameras of
an substantial note.  But they did have the legend. They had Cartier Bresson
and Gene Smith and Garry Winogrand (still) knocking around the world with
their  IIIa's and f's and their M3's and in Winogrand's case M4's.  So how
do you propose they position themselves? Like Panasonic? Well, they did that
too. Their history -- their authenticy on top of their superb quality --
dictates they be a luxury brand. They can't survive any other way.

Keep in mind that everything of lasting value that was affordable for
working people in the US 1966 is not affordable to them now: homes,
educations, holidays, cars, Leica's.  So if you ever cast a vote for Ronald
Reagan, Bush !, Clinton (yuuup, economically a Republican without a doubt)
or Bush II, don't complain.  We have reshaped our society from a hopeful,
(putatively) egalitarian, demonstrably socially mobile one into a fetid and
criminal oligarchy and no one took to the streets or raised a significant
voice -- a voice having impact -- against the change.  We all just tried to
get our asses in a nearby chair when the music stopped.

Vince






On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Philip Forrest
<photo.forrest at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Agreed. And if/when I can afford anything new from Leica aside from
> their fantastic loupe or an M8 battery, I'll certainly jump on that
> opportunity. I just don't know when or even if that is going to happen
> in this economic climate for the foreseeable future. It might be a
> decade or more before I can afford that new 21mm 'Lux that I lust over.
> Phil Forrest
>
>
> > old leica cameras and old leica lenses lead to leica awareness, leica
> > pride, new leica lenses and even new leica cameras,
> >
> > I think you Phil are an example of exactly that.
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


Replies: Reply from jmaddox01 at suddenlink.net (Jack Maddox) ([Leica] Leica prices)
In reply to: Message from lrzeitlin at gmail.com (Lawrence Zeitlin) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Philip Forrest) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Philip Forrest) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Philip Forrest) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from philippe.amard at sfr.fr (philippe.amard) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Leica prices)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Philip Forrest) ([Leica] Leica prices)