Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/02/15
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]On Feb 15, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Vince Passaro wrote: > I offered an extreme case. If posthumously, with him having never touched > the film or seen the negatives, Winogrand's vision and aesthetic were so > palpably "in charge" of those prints, how can Tina not be the "author" of > her collection even as she gets valuable assistance / advice / second > opinions from her editor? it's a question of choice...which Tina has... Winogrand, more limited.... Steve > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at > gmail.com>wrote: > >> >> On Feb 15, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Vince Passaro wrote: >> >>> Steve- >>> Writers have editors, why shouldn't photographers? They're quite helpful. >>> It's not as if the great writers weren't edited. Similarly painters don't >>> get to tell the gallery owner which paintings to hang. They discuss, no >>> doubt. In the end, in all these relationships, there is no confusion >> about >>> who is the artist; but part of great art in every form is the artist >> working >>> on intuitive and often utterly unconscious levels. And it is quite >> possible >>> to take a fine picture and not recognize or notice that it is a fine >> picture >>> until someone else, with qualitative skills, points it out. >>> >>> The process is not so pure. The Gary Winogrand show at MoMa in the 80s >>> caused a ruckus because one whole room of it comprised photos he'd never >>> even processed (he'd shoot the rolls, many many many of them, and toss >> them >>> into plastic garbage bags, where they were when he died.) So he didn't >> pick; >>> he didn't print; he didn't select from the prints. Were they great >>> photographs? Absolutely. Was he the party responsible for them, and >>> did they reflect his vision? Absolutely. >> >> >> >> thanks Vince and of course you are correct and I agree... >> >> I too have benefited from the advice of others, sometimes great advice. >> >> And since I am an untrained amateur I can only learn here, any knowledge I >> have, likely comes from here... >> >> I come from fields far removed...and I sometimes extrapolate. >> >> With regards to your very interesting and understandable example above, >> may I be allowed one simple response... >> >> Tina is alive... >> >> >> Steve >>> >>> Some may disagree however. Some certainly did at the time. >>> >>> Vince >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at >>> gmail.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Tina Manley wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:42 PM, George Lottermoser <imagist3 at >>>>> mac.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What is the "purpose" of the "edit?" >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A book, eventually. >>>> >>>> I assume it's your book and not Maggie's... >>>> >>>> It troubles me that your book will have her selections, some of which >> you >>>> would not have selected..... >>>> >>>> In spite of her great even amazing credentials, the photos are not hers, >>>> the book is not hers...and certain selections are not yours... >>>> >>>> That I find troubling for obvious reasons, and especially as I connect >> with >>>> your work and your selections...that you have made in the past. It may >> not >>>> be easy for you, but so what, the idea of turning that over to someone >> else >>>> is suspect. >>>> Brahms had great trouble composing, but if he had turned that over to >>>> someone else, we wouldn't have Brahms. >>>> >>>> I also worry that she may make better editorial choices with her own >> work, >>>> than with some one elses... >>>> >>>> But the usual enormous level of respect we all have for someone with >> great >>>> credentials is itself worrisome...they say jump and we say... how >> high...? >>>> >>>> and fwiw, in pure sciences, virtually all of the truly great discoveries >>>> are made by people who don't easily go along with with they are >> told...if >>>> they listened to accepted dogma, they would be destined to oblivion. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Like any other work; >>>>>> experience matters. >>>>>> I have no doubt that Maggie Steber >>>>>> has a very experienced eye for photo editing. >>>>>> Yet, one may ask, editing for what purpose? >>>>>> Market segment? Publications? Fine Art books? Other? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> She was the first woman editor for Associated Press and Pulitzer Prize >>>>> winning editor of the Miami Herald. Maggie has been awarded the Ernst >>>> Haas >>>>> grant, the Alicia Patterson Foundation grant and the Knight Foundation >>>>> grant, as well as a World Press Photo first prize and Leica Medal of >>>>> Excellence, and she was a two-time finalist for the Eugene Smith >> Grant.. >>>> Her >>>>> book on Haiti, published by Aperture, won Photo Book of the Year. She >>>> works >>>>> for National Geographic, Fortune, Smithsonian, teaches at ICP, Maine, >> and >>>>> Santa Fe workshops, judges NPPA Photo of the Year, World Press Photo of >>>> the >>>>> Year and many more. So I would say she edits for all purposes. >>>>> >>>>> And she uses Leicas!! >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will her edit express what you want to express about the subject(s)? >>>>>> about your self? about your work? other issues? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> During the editing process, she kept telling me to let her know if >> there >>>>> were photos I particularly wanted to include. I did. Most she agreed >>>> with, >>>>> some we argued about, some she talked me out of, some I put in the B >> edit >>>>> with the idea that we would review them further in the next edit. I >>>> think >>>>> she was very careful to include what I wanted to express. >>>>> >>>>> I still think that I would include far too many photos because I know >> the >>>>> story behind the people. I find it hard to judge my photos on their >>>> merits >>>>> and not on what I remember about the situation. >>>>> >>>>> I need an editor. I think it's wonderful that some people are >> confident >>>>> enough to judge their own work, but that's not me! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks - >>>>> >>>>> Tina >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>>>> www.tinamanley.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information