Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/02/15

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Subject: [Leica] IMG: Murillo's
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:09:35 -0800
References: <73301d6b1002141915w7aeb9762nf0895723d51bba67@mail.gmail.com> <8815A31C-A73B-4926-A34A-1696BCC12414@frozenlight.eu> <36172e5a1002150138m64a72cd1x298590c6c1499084@mail.gmail.com> <73301d6b1002150154o27a89e24uaac79ce15305c6d3@mail.gmail.com> <D599509C-5B8D-493E-9CA0-8CB601244DBB@frozenlight.eu> <387743A2-2C41-4B63-83D0-B8693DF1254D@gmail.com> <F520D1FB-4F7B-48AD-9D12-0556CD15E005@mac.com> <73301d6b1002151316re4bcf38hce24c890038af9b8@mail.gmail.com> <EF72D166-535C-448C-BF90-84D296AA7F7C@gmail.com> <19b6d42d1002151936w32386e6fs89c2e0901372c51e@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 15, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Vince Passaro wrote:

> Steve-
> Writers have editors, why shouldn't photographers? They're quite helpful.
> It's not as if the great writers weren't edited. Similarly painters don't
> get to tell the gallery owner which paintings to hang. They discuss, no
> doubt. In the end, in all these relationships, there is no confusion about
> who is the artist; but part of great art in every form is the artist 
> working
> on intuitive and often utterly unconscious levels. And it is quite possible
> to take a fine picture and not recognize or notice that it is a fine 
> picture
> until someone else, with qualitative skills, points it out.
> 
> The process is not so pure.  The Gary Winogrand show at MoMa in the 80s
> caused a ruckus because one whole room of it comprised photos he'd never
> even processed (he'd shoot the rolls, many many many of them, and toss them
> into plastic garbage bags, where they were when he died.) So he didn't 
> pick;
> he didn't print; he didn't select from the prints. Were they great
> photographs? Absolutely. Was he the party responsible for them, and
> did they reflect his vision? Absolutely.



thanks Vince and of course you are correct and I agree...

I too have benefited from the advice of others,  sometimes great advice.

And since I am an untrained amateur I can only learn here, any knowledge I 
have, likely comes from here...

I come from fields far removed...and I sometimes extrapolate.

With regards to your very interesting  and understandable example above, may 
I be allowed one simple response...

Tina is alive...


Steve
> 
> Some may disagree however. Some certainly did at the time.
> 
> Vince
> 
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at 
> gmail.com>wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Tina Manley wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:42 PM, George Lottermoser <imagist3 at mac.com
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What is the "purpose" of the "edit?"
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> A book, eventually.
>> 
>> I assume it's your book and not Maggie's...
>> 
>> It troubles me that your book will have her selections, some of which you
>> would not have selected.....
>> 
>> In spite of her great even amazing credentials, the photos are not hers,
>> the book is not hers...and certain selections are not yours...
>> 
>> That I find troubling for obvious reasons, and especially as I connect 
>> with
>> your work and your selections...that you have made in the past. It may not
>> be easy for you, but so what, the idea of turning that over to someone 
>> else
>> is suspect.
>> Brahms had great trouble composing, but if he had turned that over to
>> someone else, we wouldn't have Brahms.
>> 
>> I also worry that she may make better editorial choices with her own work,
>> than with some one elses...
>> 
>> But the usual enormous level of respect we all have for someone with great
>> credentials is itself worrisome...they say jump and we say... how high...?
>> 
>> and fwiw, in pure sciences, virtually all of the truly great discoveries
>> are made by people who don't easily go along with with they are told...if
>> they listened to accepted dogma, they would be destined to oblivion.
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Like any other work;
>>>> experience matters.
>>>> I have no doubt that Maggie Steber
>>>> has a very experienced eye for photo editing.
>>>> Yet, one may ask, editing for what purpose?
>>>> Market segment? Publications? Fine Art books? Other?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> She was the first woman editor for Associated Press and Pulitzer Prize
>>> winning editor of the Miami Herald. Maggie has been awarded the Ernst
>> Haas
>>> grant, the Alicia Patterson Foundation grant and the Knight Foundation
>>> grant, as well as a World Press Photo first prize and Leica Medal of
>>> Excellence, and she was a two-time finalist for the Eugene Smith Grant..
>> Her
>>> book on Haiti, published by Aperture, won Photo Book of the Year.  She
>> works
>>> for National Geographic, Fortune, Smithsonian, teaches at ICP, Maine, and
>>> Santa Fe workshops, judges NPPA Photo of the Year, World Press Photo of
>> the
>>> Year and many more.  So I would say she edits for all purposes.
>>> 
>>> And she uses Leicas!!
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Will her edit express what you want to express about the subject(s)?
>>>> about your self? about your work? other issues?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> During the editing process, she kept telling me to let her know if there
>>> were photos I particularly wanted to include.  I did.  Most she agreed
>> with,
>>> some we argued about, some she talked me out of, some I put in the B edit
>>> with the idea that we would review them further in the next edit.  I
>> think
>>> she was very careful to include what I wanted to express.
>>> 
>>> I still think that I would include far too many photos because I know the
>>> story behind the people.  I find it hard to judge my photos on their
>> merits
>>> and not on what I remember about the situation.
>>> 
>>> I need an editor.  I think it's wonderful that some people are confident
>>> enough to judge their own work, but that's not me!
>>> 
>>> Thanks -
>>> 
>>> Tina
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP
>>> www.tinamanley.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Reply from passaro.vince at gmail.com (Vince Passaro) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)
Message from passaro.vince at gmail.com (Vince Passaro) ([Leica] IMG: Murillo's)