Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/02/15
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I offered an extreme case. If posthumously, with him having never touched the film or seen the negatives, Winogrand's vision and aesthetic were so palpably "in charge" of those prints, how can Tina not be the "author" of her collection even as she gets valuable assistance / advice / second opinions from her editor? I know she's alive. I read her posts. There are some people on the LUG I wonder about.... but not her. V On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com>wrote: > > On Feb 15, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Vince Passaro wrote: > > > Steve- > > Writers have editors, why shouldn't photographers? They're quite helpful. > > It's not as if the great writers weren't edited. Similarly painters don't > > get to tell the gallery owner which paintings to hang. They discuss, no > > doubt. In the end, in all these relationships, there is no confusion > about > > who is the artist; but part of great art in every form is the artist > working > > on intuitive and often utterly unconscious levels. And it is quite > possible > > to take a fine picture and not recognize or notice that it is a fine > picture > > until someone else, with qualitative skills, points it out. > > > > The process is not so pure. The Gary Winogrand show at MoMa in the 80s > > caused a ruckus because one whole room of it comprised photos he'd never > > even processed (he'd shoot the rolls, many many many of them, and toss > them > > into plastic garbage bags, where they were when he died.) So he didn't > pick; > > he didn't print; he didn't select from the prints. Were they great > > photographs? Absolutely. Was he the party responsible for them, and > > did they reflect his vision? Absolutely. > > > > thanks Vince and of course you are correct and I agree... > > I too have benefited from the advice of others, sometimes great advice. > > And since I am an untrained amateur I can only learn here, any knowledge I > have, likely comes from here... > > I come from fields far removed...and I sometimes extrapolate. > > With regards to your very interesting and understandable example above, > may I be allowed one simple response... > > Tina is alive... > > > Steve > > > > Some may disagree however. Some certainly did at the time. > > > > Vince > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at > > gmail.com > >wrote: > > > >> > >> On Feb 15, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Tina Manley wrote: > >> > >>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:42 PM, George Lottermoser <imagist3 at > >>> mac.com > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> What is the "purpose" of the "edit?" > >>>> > >>> > >>> A book, eventually. > >> > >> I assume it's your book and not Maggie's... > >> > >> It troubles me that your book will have her selections, some of which > you > >> would not have selected..... > >> > >> In spite of her great even amazing credentials, the photos are not hers, > >> the book is not hers...and certain selections are not yours... > >> > >> That I find troubling for obvious reasons, and especially as I connect > with > >> your work and your selections...that you have made in the past. It may > not > >> be easy for you, but so what, the idea of turning that over to someone > else > >> is suspect. > >> Brahms had great trouble composing, but if he had turned that over to > >> someone else, we wouldn't have Brahms. > >> > >> I also worry that she may make better editorial choices with her own > work, > >> than with some one elses... > >> > >> But the usual enormous level of respect we all have for someone with > great > >> credentials is itself worrisome...they say jump and we say... how > high...? > >> > >> and fwiw, in pure sciences, virtually all of the truly great discoveries > >> are made by people who don't easily go along with with they are > told...if > >> they listened to accepted dogma, they would be destined to oblivion. > >> > >> > >> Steve > >> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Like any other work; > >>>> experience matters. > >>>> I have no doubt that Maggie Steber > >>>> has a very experienced eye for photo editing. > >>>> Yet, one may ask, editing for what purpose? > >>>> Market segment? Publications? Fine Art books? Other? > >>>> > >>> > >>> She was the first woman editor for Associated Press and Pulitzer Prize > >>> winning editor of the Miami Herald. Maggie has been awarded the Ernst > >> Haas > >>> grant, the Alicia Patterson Foundation grant and the Knight Foundation > >>> grant, as well as a World Press Photo first prize and Leica Medal of > >>> Excellence, and she was a two-time finalist for the Eugene Smith > Grant.. > >> Her > >>> book on Haiti, published by Aperture, won Photo Book of the Year. She > >> works > >>> for National Geographic, Fortune, Smithsonian, teaches at ICP, Maine, > and > >>> Santa Fe workshops, judges NPPA Photo of the Year, World Press Photo of > >> the > >>> Year and many more. So I would say she edits for all purposes. > >>> > >>> And she uses Leicas!! > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Will her edit express what you want to express about the subject(s)? > >>>> about your self? about your work? other issues? > >>>> > >>> > >>> During the editing process, she kept telling me to let her know if > there > >>> were photos I particularly wanted to include. I did. Most she agreed > >> with, > >>> some we argued about, some she talked me out of, some I put in the B > edit > >>> with the idea that we would review them further in the next edit. I > >> think > >>> she was very careful to include what I wanted to express. > >>> > >>> I still think that I would include far too many photos because I know > the > >>> story behind the people. I find it hard to judge my photos on their > >> merits > >>> and not on what I remember about the situation. > >>> > >>> I need an editor. I think it's wonderful that some people are > confident > >>> enough to judge their own work, but that's not me! > >>> > >>> Thanks - > >>> > >>> Tina > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Tina Manley, ASMP > >>> www.tinamanley.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >