Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/12/19

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Subject: [Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?
From: jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:06:11 +0530
References: <8c8849060912180102j3e923072n699bfa64072e7442@mail.gmail.com> <4563F7F7-54B0-434F-BE00-17FFAC3C1E15@ameritech.net> <36172e5a0912181442w147b5244rbc2debf41f2c6dc1@mail.gmail.com> <634544D3-95D0-4A72-AF0F-91C2B8AB76EE@ameritech.net> <36172e5a0912181950h5e8faea5i4555f72307297462@mail.gmail.com> <C1A2D335-E6C1-4323-8E12-BBF3997AD506@btinternet.com> <3cad89990912190519m679a6e0ata667b3bd6751321d@mail.gmail.com> <312704.34048.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bob,
The only red/blue shift I knew of was those due to the Doppler Effect, which
can hardly be the case here.

So I did some digging. Could it be this effect - look under "Intensity",
right at the end, the Purkine Shift- and both Thom Hogan and Michael
Reichmann are talking about Landscape Photography:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/colour_theory.shtml

Cheers
Jayanand


On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Bob Adler <rgacpa at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does that mean they show separation in the histogram; i.e., when you look
> at the histogram, the blue pixels show up in a different part of the X axis
> than the red?
>  Bob Adler
> Palo Alto, CA
> http://www.rgaphoto.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 5:19:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to
> use?
>
> Thom Hogan says that the 18mm and 21mm show colour shift:
>
> *Leica*: quite a refreshing story, actually. They listened to M8 customers.
> They looked for exploitable niches. They partnered with other companies
> (Kodak and Adobe, for example) to provide things that they couldn't do on
> their own (sound a bit like ASML in the *Economist* story?). I'll bet that
> they can't build enough M9, X1, or S2 cameras to meet demand in 2010. They
> still have issues they need to correct, though. Too many M mount lenses
> still provoke red/blue shifts across the frame due to the thickness of the
> infrared block filter. That keeps too many people from stepping over to the
> M9, I think. For example, I might consider an M9 with an 18mm or 21mm lens
> for landscapes, especially those I have to do long hikes to. But these
> lenses absolutely seem to provoke the side-to-side color issues, so my
> interest is immediately weakened.
>
> See the whole article at:
>
> http://www.bythom.com/2010predictions.htm
>
> Cheers
> Jayanand
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Frank Dernie
> <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com>wrote:
>
> > My WATE works fine on the M9. I always assume a lens with an exit pupil
> > extremely close to the sensor will be too extreme to be compensated, so
> the
> > 15mm CV almost certainly won't work, though I took a few shots with my
> 12mm
> > and it seems not bad, I preferred uncorrected. Depending on the subject
> the
> > shortcomings may not be noticed at all. It was pretty obvious that the
> Zeiss
> > 21mm f4.5 would be unsuitable for digital, thank goodness they have
> > eventually said so, I think it is pretty unfair for Zeiss and CV to sell
> > customers lenses suitable for film not digital and not make it clear on
> the
> > packaging.
> > Frank
> >
> > On 19 Dec, 2009, at 03:50, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
> >
> > > OK then Dante. That would be a problem with those Cosina Voigtlander
> > lenses
> > > then, not Leica ;-) No worries.
> > > I'd also seen a comment from PopFlash that Zeiss are not recommending
> > their
> > > ZM 4.5 21 on the M9 (but all other ZM lenses OK). I understand that the
> > > latest free Cornerfix works well with that one (as it does with the
> > > asymmetric overcorrection that has been reported with some samples of
> the
> > > Elmar 18. I read that Leica engineers have seen the testing and samples
> > > reported on that. Perhaps it will be addressed in the next firmware
> > release.
> > >
> > > I sold my ZM 18 (and that 21) a while back so I can't comment from
> > > experience on those. I'm happy with 24 as my widest now on the M9
> (which
> > is
> > > why I had the 18 for my M8).
> > >
> > >
> > > 2009/12/19 Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
> > >
> > >> The 12mm and 15mm lenses are the ones causing consternation.
> > >>
> > >> Dante
> > >>
> > >> On Dec 18, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Mine works fine including with my 24 and 28 wide open. The biggest
> > >> problem
> > >>> that people are reporting is simply that there aren't enough to go
> > around
> > >>> for all of the orders so far.
> > >>> On the cover glass problem, there are six reports currently (from the
> > >>> thousands of cameras delivered thus far), which is six too many of
> > >> course.
> > >>> Too early for the cause or causes to be determined. One camera was
> > >> replaced
> > >>> on the spot by the dealer (lucky customer that the dealer had
> another)
> > >> and
> > >>> one that was returned to Solms was repaired in 2 days. I hope the
> other
> > 4
> > >>> customers can soon report similar rapid resolutions.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2009/12/19 Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Bear in mind that replacing the sensor glass on an M8 requires a
> > >>>> board-level replacement ($1,800) - so if this situation occurs with
> > the
> > >> M9,
> > >>>> and you don't catch it in-warranty, you could be in for a world of
> > hurt.
> > >> I
> > >>>> don't think Leica changed any of its procurement practices.  I
> suspect
> > >> that
> > >>>> it simply lacks the clean room necessary to replace the glass to
> Leica
> > >>>> cleanliness standards and can pass the massive cost of what should
> be
> > a
> > >> $300
> > >>>> repair to the end user.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Oh yeah... M9, perfect the day it was released, no teething
> problems,
> > >>>> investment for the ages, etc.  So we have red shifting, complaints
> > about
> > >>>> wide-angle lenses, complaints about incomplete IR blocking, and now
> > >> broken
> > >>>> cover glasses.  Every manufacturer of everything has problems early
> in
> > >> the
> > >>>> production run.  It's unrealistic to expect that a digital camera
> > pushed
> > >> out
> > >>>> the door in 18 months would be any different.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And as my father said, "every car looks like a classic the year it
> > comes
> > >>>> out."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dante
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ____________
> > >>>> Dante Stella
> > >>>> http://www.dantestella.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>> NO ARCHIVE
> > >>>>
> > >> --
> > >> Cheers
> > >> Geoff
> > >> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from jsjgroups at gmail.com (Jerry Justianto) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)
Message from rgacpa at yahoo.com (Bob Adler) ([Leica] M9 Internal IR-Cut filter make the camera fragile to use?)