Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/01/18

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Subject: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
From: s.dimitrov at charter.net (Slobodan Dimitrov)
Date: Sun Jan 18 07:29:32 2009
References: <20090117005558.PDMF18445.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net><50574752-F044-4C51-8968-0897EA414D3D@usjet.net><8979E64B1EDA477ABC75864ED34F5487@D1S9FY41><C029DA3B-B043-4E22-A229-7AE02D20C699@usjet.net><D64F863506B54290A141DFAFCDDBF6C1@D1S9FY41><167579D7-2CC5-4041-95CA-12272DC465C6@usjet.net><8DBC9D91FE9E47D7AAF8F8956014C5D8@D1S9FY41><625CEE04-9886-4546-A2D3-5F377976EC01@usjet.net><CC28F634F2884798B2D730292619B0B5@D1S9FY41><B36BFE01-2F4F-44DE-9A2B-4AE49D1A51A6@usjet.net><B94C48D6CA334B7CB89F7BB096315EB3@D1S9FY41> <808811CE-A39D-468A-BCDF-23150A56ADC2@cox.net> <68FBA6FA1DA54C0AAFE23483D9D5044C@D1S9FY41>

And joining the LHSA will get you a CD of all the past issues, minus  
the very last ones. But I'm sure an appendix will be on its way  
eventually.
sd


On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:56 AM, Seth Rosner wrote:

> Actually Steve, I've never used the pre-ASPH Summicron but have  
> heard the same things you have. The 35mm that I use is the 35/2,8  
> Summaron that we tested vs. the pre-ASPH and the 8-element  
> Summicrons on the Optikos Corporation MTF optical test bench; see  
> the article in LHSA Viewfinder magazine, Vol 37 No 4 (4th qtr 04).  
> Showed pretty clearly that if you don't need the added stop of  
> speed, the Summaron was the choice.
>
> I'd attach a copy of the manuscript but I think Brian's software  
> strips away attachments
>
> Seth
>
> Seth
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Barbour" <kididdoc@cox.net>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>
>
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>
>>> All different optical designs. All are Gauss derivatives. #1 is  
>>> an 8-
>>> element, #2 and 3 are 6-element with slight differences (in #2 the
>>> second and third elements are cemented together whereas in #3 they
>>> are separated by air, sometimes called an "air lens" for the
>>> different refracting effect of air vis-a-vis glass,  and #4,
>>> frequently referred to as the "pre-aspheric", is 7-element with
>>> elements 2 & 3 and elements 6 & 7 cemented together.
>>
>> some love especially  #4, calling it the bokeh king.
>>
>> I love that lens... what are your thoughts Seth?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>> If you're really interested in this stuff, Erwin Puts' book, "Leica
>>> Lens Compendium" is an excellent resource, though in it Erwin
>>> occasionally expresses opinions with which I have disagreed
>>> publicly. Seth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"  
>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net
>>> >
>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>
>>>
>>>> They both have the full ring, serrated over about 270 degrees of  
>>>> it,
>>>> the aperture numbers the rest of the way.   So, they are BOTH  
>>>> version
>>>> 3 -- that is surprising, good news.   But all four versions are the
>>>> same optically, aren't  they?    Bob
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob, I've just taken a look at Erwin Puts' book and see that he
>>>>> puts the intro of version 3 in 1971 that would make both of your
>>>>> lenses version 3's. One other way to determine to which group your
>>>>> earlier lens belongs is ask if the diaphragm is controlled by a
>>>>> small tab that protrudes from the lens mount or by a more typical
>>>>> ring. If the former, it is version 2, if the latter, they're both
>>>>> version 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> My other Summicron 35 is 2619853, which the list puts as only a
>>>>>> year
>>>>>> newer (thanks Arche), but this one is mint.   I thought the newer
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> is version 3, but now I'm not sure.
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same series (version), Bob?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:10 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seth,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a very impressive story, both about how well built a  
>>>>>>>> Leica
>>>>>>>> lens is, and how good the Leica New Jersey service is/was.   I
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> reconsider selling this lens, except I have another one that is
>>>>>>>> newer
>>>>>>>> and is even nicer!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob, the lists I have show that your 35/2 Summicron is from
>>>>>>>>> 1972
>>>>>>>>> production that commenced at #2503101 through 2556500. I  
>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>> that Steve's serial numbers refer only to cameras. I bought
>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>> these lenses shortly after their introduction in 1969 or 70.
>>>>>>>>> Was in
>>>>>>>>> my kit for a four-week visit to South and East Africa = 700+
>>>>>>>>> Kodachromes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One afternoon in our hotel room in Nairobi after returning
>>>>>>>>> from an
>>>>>>>>> 8-day tour of the Serengeti, I put down my M4 w/ 35/2  
>>>>>>>>> Summicron
>>>>>>>>> attached to answer the phone. I had forgotten to twist the
>>>>>>>>> lens to
>>>>>>>>> full lock. When I picked it up, the lens plunged onto a tile
>>>>>>>>> floor,
>>>>>>>>> bending the rear flange. I literally burst into sweat, told my
>>>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>>>> that I had to go for a short walk to calm down. Returned to
>>>>>>>>> hotel
>>>>>>>>> room, looked once again at bent flange, shook lens  
>>>>>>>>> vigorously to
>>>>>>>>> ascertain if there were loose glass elements, diaphragm blades
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> other un-Leica-like anomalies,  etc, tried it on the M4 to
>>>>>>>>> which it
>>>>>>>>> seemd to mate as usual. Had no back-up 35mm so used it balance
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the trip. On return to NYC, I called Vince Fochtman, the lens
>>>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>>>> at Leitz/Rockleigh whom I knew pretty well, told him the story
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> said I was sending him the lens; if there was damage to the
>>>>>>>>> glass
>>>>>>>>> or mechanicals that could not be made perfect,  please just
>>>>>>>>> return
>>>>>>>>> the lens with a bill and I would sell it and find another;  
>>>>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>>>> could be made optically and mechanically flawless despite
>>>>>>>>> cosmetic
>>>>>>>>> flaws, please repair the lens. A week passed, my lens returned
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> a Leitz invoice that had no charge. I called Vince and
>>>>>>>>> inquired. He
>>>>>>>>> said the lens was fine, glass clean, clear, not decentered a
>>>>>>>>> micron, just as good as it had come from Wetzlar; he had been
>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>> very gently and little by little to bend the bent- out-of- 
>>>>>>>>> shape
>>>>>>>>> flange into perfect alignment, didn't need any parts, so no
>>>>>>>>> charge!
>>>>>>>>> Talk about robust fortress-like construction! I would like to
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> that current production is just as strong. Who knows?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Enjoy your Summicron!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seth
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seth
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:19 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seth,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that confirmation.   Where can I go to check the
>>>>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>>>>> numbers of lenses?   All I know about is Stephen Gandy's
>>>>>>>>>> lists of
>>>>>>>>>> body serial numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it is indeed the second version
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>>>>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a 35mm Summicron, pre-aspheric, that shows wear  
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> barrel
>>>>>>>>>>>> (no dents or dings) and has mint glass.  With both  
>>>>>>>>>>>> caps.   I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is 2nd version, but I'm not sure.   The serial number is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2541855,
>>>>>>>>>>>> $750
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>>>>>>> ----  -- -- -- ----------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release
>>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>> information
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date:
>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>> information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
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> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Reply from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron - now LHSA 'Viewfinder' magazine)
In reply to: Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] more audiophilia)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)