Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/12/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]couldn't agree more; it is shocking, indeed almost criminal, that the gov't isn't going after those billions of dollars in bonuses. But Bush/Cheney have never been in the business of getting their friends, the really big guys. It's always been screw the masses. Republican opposition to the auto co bail-out was premised on killing the auto workers union. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jayanand Govindaraj" <jayanand@gmail.com> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Leica] un-believable - now 'way' off-topic and long > Seth, > This is what happens when you have a financial system where everyone > involved gets paid upfront, including the rating agencies. It severely > compromises the whole system, and nobody does any due diligence. The only > ones affected at the end of it all is the borrower, and the greatest fool > somewhere on earth who is holding a scrap paper at the end of it all. > Paulson and co. had taken their bonuses and decamped long before the s**t > hit the roof....I am stunned that the government is not going after the > past > bonuses of investment bankers that were based on paper profits which in > turn > were based on even more dubious internal valuations. > Cheers > Jayanand > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Seth Rosner > <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com>wrote: > >> Jayanand, >> >> Exactly so; except that one needs to distinguish between those borrowers >> who knew what they were doing and were just plainly greedy to >> buy-and-flip, >> and those - and there were many, and many of them barely knew English - >> who >> were deliberately and fraudulently lied to and lured into signing >> contracts >> they hadn't read and wouldn't have understood if they had. Similar >> thbiongs >> were going on in the auto business: salesmen going out and searching for >> uncredit-worthy buyers to bring in, sign on leases the sales guys knew >> they >> couldn't pay, knowing that the cars would be repossessed withint 4-6 >> months; >> doing it simply to meet sels quotas and get their commissions. I know >> personally some dealerships where this happened - and the sales guys were >> summarily canned. >> >> Best, >> >> Seth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jayanand Govindaraj" < >> jayanand@gmail.com> >> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> >> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [Leica] un-believable - now 'way' off-topic and long >> >> >> >> Seth, >>> I agree with you 100% about deregulation and the venality of the >>> bankers. >>> But dont underestimate the greed of the borrowers either, it takes two >>> to >>> tango. Its a cultural thing, dont save, borrow and borrow and borrow. >>> Remember caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware) is the keyword in any >>> contract. >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Seth Rosner <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com >>> >wrote: >>> >>> Oh yes, Frank, the folks who adore free market capitalism - run amok. >>>> Deregulate! Let the criminals fleece investors, earn billions of >>>> dollars >>>> in >>>> compensation and leave it to taxpayers to save the world while >>>> permitting >>>> the criminals to retain their billions. Don't get me started. >>>> >>>> Three years ago my nephew was writing reports and making oral >>>> presentations >>>> to clients of his firm that predicted exactly what has occurred, >>>> accusing >>>> Moody's and Standard & Poors, the two major credit rating agencies, of >>>> gross >>>> negligence in failing adequately to assess precisely the risks of the >>>> financial skullduggery that led to 30-1 leverage ratios for lenders, >>>> mortgage brokers l;ying to and conning poor people into buying homes >>>> they >>>> couldn't possibly afford and the hedge fund crimes that ensued. Josh >>>> was >>>> predicting exactly what happened. The firm asked him to resign as their >>>> clients were offended! >>>> >>>> Now he consults frequently with the finance committees of our Senate >>>> and >>>> House of Representatives on legislative solutions, appears regularly as >>>> a >>>> commentator on financial news programs and last summer was invited by >>>> the >>>> Brookings Institute to Paris for its three-day program on the sub-prime >>>> melt-down where he appeared on several panels with Paul Volker, former >>>> Chairman of the Federal Reserve. >>>> >>>> Finally the people who brought you this world mess leave Washington >>>> exactly >>>> one month from today. They will leave behind a fair number of >>>> Congresspersons of similar persuasion, so the war is not yet won. >>>> >>>> Gals and guys, understand that I am an independent voter, not >>>> registered >>>> in >>>> any party for decades; I've cast my ballots for Democrats and >>>> Republicans >>>> for the presidency, the Senate and House and for state and local >>>> offices. >>>> Unfortunately the Republican Party was highjacked thirty years ago or >>>> more >>>> by unprincipled thugs whose only precepts were to say and do anything >>>> for >>>> money and power, lie, cheat, deceive. They've made the world a messier >>>> place >>>> than it's been in many, many years. >>>> >>>> Fortunately slightly more than half of the American electorate saw fit >>>> to >>>> make an African-American our President. He's smart, principled and >>>> burdened >>>> with the worst economy since the Great Depression and the worst world >>>> crisis >>>> since the demise of the Soviet Union. We'll see. >>>> >>>> Today seems to be my rant day. Please forgive. >>>> >>>> Seth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Dernie" < >>>> Frank.Dernie@btinternet.com> >>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:31 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] un-believable - now off-topic and long-ish >>>> >>>> >>>> Completely agree Seth. OTOH it was the government that removed the >>>> >>>>> controls put in place post 1929 crash and left the inmates to run the >>>>> prison... >>>>> Greed blinds people to reality, look at the Madoff (sp) deal, no >>>>> investor could have believed it was straight with those returns but >>>>> they turned a blind eye as long as the cash came in. >>>>> Frank >>>>> >>>>> On 20 Dec, 2008, at 16:44, Seth Rosner wrote: >>>>> >>>>> caught in the economic catastrophe caused by the criminals who have >>>>> >>>>>> run the banks and investment banks and come close to destroying the >>>>>> world economy. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1857 - Release Date: >>>> 12/19/2008 >>>> 10:09 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1859 - Release Date: >> 12/20/2008 >> 2:34 PM >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1859 - Release Date: 12/20/2008 2:34 PM