Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/04/27

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Subject: [Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web
From: hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (G Hopkinson)
Date: Fri Apr 27 17:32:50 2007
References: <82c9dd70704270336u5da9afc6j67263528c571bef@mail.gmail.com><82c9dd70704270337g9367538x4ccdf81c288adf34@mail.gmail.com><000801c788c2$839bb080$6601a8c0@asus930><82c9dd70704270943w972fa85u10457dcf0af1af83@mail.gmail.com><001a01c78914$8d08e4b0$6601a8c0@asus930><82c9dd70704271502i3a75449ar576dec9a45581db9@mail.gmail.com><82c9dd70704271519j7ac55609p79796b0c1baff153@mail.gmail.com><002b01c78927$7487dfa0$6601a8c0@asus930> <82c9dd70704271720n6d3c16d4hebc27672ebda6f4d@mail.gmail.com>

That's the perils of LCDS for ya. Wide screens seem especially vulnerable, 
although a top-bottom shift surprises me. Must be a big
angle of eyeballs to screen? You need a calibrated frame to hold your head 
at zero degrees to the screen, as well. Or a top of the
line Eizo, which costs more than an M8 here, sigh.

Cheers
Hoppy
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web

I retract my claim - The reason was embarrassingly simply.
The 'other computer monitor'  (read cheaper) has significant color shift
depending angle of view.
I was comparing LR image on top, and PS on bottom on the screen.
Flip flopping position reversed the effect.
The LR and PS images ARE IDENTICAL .

The original issue still does persist:
Red shift on my pro calibrated monitor when viewed in IE.

Eric


On 4/27/07, G Hopkinson <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> Wade are you out there??????
> I don't have LR to try this out. I only tried the trial version. My guess
> would be that LR would have the same colour control
> functionality and code as PS. I suspect a setting rather than a difference
> between the two apps. I see several LR books now
> available via Amazon, including by Martin Evening.
>
> The inquiring Hoppy wants to know as well, now.
>
> Cheers
> Hoppy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org [mailto:
> lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Korenman
> Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 08:20
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web
>
> STOP THE PRESSES! - I think it is LR.
>
> I took a known great skin tone headshot.
>
> I created an export sRGB Jpeg with Ligthroom
> I exported another sRGB Jpeg with Photoshop.
>
> I then opened both images on another computer with internet explored (non
> ICC aware app).
>
> The PS Jpeg is MUCH better and truer.
> The LR Jpeg is darker and redder.
>
> Please repeat this experiment to see it it holds true.
>
> thanks,
> Eric
>
>
> On 4/27/07, Eric Korenman <faneuil@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Solution: Buy everyone in the world a Spyder.
> >
> > !
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> > On 4/27/07, G Hopkinson <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > Eric, regarding your monitors, I meant that while they would very
> likely
> > > only work within the sRGB colour space, they may not
> > > necessarily be able to display all of it. However the important thing
> > > there is that you have your systems colour managed and they
> > > work. Since the browsers are not ICC aware as I thought was likely the
> > > case, then the image is not being mapped (by the video card)
> > > to the monitor profile when you are using the browser. It is out of
> the
> > > colour managed control. The images should still be the right
> > > temperature and brightness because you've physically adjusted the
> > > monitors' controls in the calibration process, but the colour
> > > reproduction may not be the same? On your clients' computers the same
> > > image would most likely be too bright and too cool at a
> > > default setting but you have no control there, of course.
> > >
> > > My thoughts anyway.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Hoppy
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org [mailto:
> lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org]
> > > On Behalf Of
> > > Eric Korenman
> > > Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 02:43
> > > To: Leica Users Group
> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web
> > >
> > > As I understand, my monitors (planar high-end LCDs) are calibrated
> into
> > > sRGB
> > > space (as I have it set).
> > > Color compliant programs look great on it. Everything matches. Prints
> > > from
> > > pro-lab also come looking great.
> > >
> > > I am previewing sRGB Jpegs on non ICC aware browsers on my own
> machine.
> > > That is when the images go flewy and look ruddy skinned.
> > >
> > > I check out my web posted images at other computers from time to time
> > > and
> > > they also look ruddy.
> > >
> > > My guess is it is a combination of poor representation of images by
> > > non-ICC
> > > browsers and non-calibrated monitors.
> > > But I can't understand why the images would look bad on my system
> which
> > > >should< be in sRGB space.
> > >
> > > Thats why I like B&W!
> > >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/27/07, G Hopkinson < hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Eric, I'm confused there. With your monitor calibrated you have its
> > > own
> > > > profile installed. That might well fit into the sRGB but not
> > > > necessarily show all of it.
> > > > However I suspect that the weak link may be using a web browser to
> > > display
> > > > the images. I don't know if that will match what is
> > > > happening in a colour management compliant prog. I may well be wrong
> > > > there, I'm not expert on what the web browser does. I bet they
> > > > don't look the same as in photoshop. Are you previewing in the same
> > > > browser on your machine?
> > > > Of course you have no control at all in what your client's computers
> > > > (monitors) do to your images. Most would very likely not be
> > > > colour managed. I just recently looked at the LUG contest gallery on
> > > two
> > > > different laptops. The pictures looked horrible vs on a
> > > > calibrated setup.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Hoppy
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org [mailto:
> > > > lug-bounces+hoppyman= bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > Eric Korenman
> > > > Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 20:38
> > > > To: LUG
> > > > Subject: [Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web
> > > >
> > > > My system is calibrated by Spyder 2 and the deafult window color
> space
> > > is
> > > > sRGB IEC61966-2.1
> > > >
> > > > Eric
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4/27/07, Eric Korenman < faneuil@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I know this may be more of an adobe forum question. but:
> > > > >
> > > > > My monitors are calibrated. Everything looks super in LR, PS and
> > > ACDSee.
> > > > > Skin tones are warm and lovely.
> > > > >
> > > > > Exported Jpeg images also look great in any of these three
> programs.
> > > > > However, the images look quite ruddy when opened in Internet
> > > explorer or
> > > > > any or other lesser image viewer.
> > > > > I am concerned that clients are seeing very color shifted ruddy
> skin
> > > > tones
> > > > > when I email them or post proofs.
> > > > > I am sending them sRGB Jpegs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where is the problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Leica Users Group.
> > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Leica Users Group.
> > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

_______________________________________________
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Replies: Reply from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Reply from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
In reply to: Message from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (G Hopkinson) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (G Hopkinson) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (G Hopkinson) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)
Message from faneuil at gmail.com (Eric Korenman) ([Leica] Re: JPEG look on LR vs the web)