Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/01/15

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] There's something about German design ...
From: marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small)
Date: Mon Jan 15 18:42:37 2007
References: <200701150418.l0F4IlM8086419@server1.waverley.reid.org> <315738.85149.qm@web90412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200701150654.l0F6svXV004648@server1.waverley.reid.org> <cee6b34c9fba.45ab44a8@shaw.ca> <200701152025.l0FKPdd6026701@server1.waverley.reid.org> <cda1b5bff5cb.45abb95c@shaw.ca>

At 07:26 PM 1/15/2007, GREG LORENZO wrote:


 >Putting large numbers of personnel on the ground in Europe does not
 >mean that you won the land war in Europe (just ask Saddam's generals
 >about their 4th largest army of 1990, or the French). To win a war you
 >need to engage the enemy, pin them down and destroy their combat
 >power. Once again, the Red Army won the land war in Europe.

I posted this in response to a statement that the 
US concentrated its military efforts in the 
Pacific.  Such was not the case.  We concentrated on Europe.



 >Where do you get these bizarre facts? Your 
source(s)couldn't be more incorrect.
 >
 >German WWII Ace Heinrich B???r spent the last two months of the war
 >flying a ME-262
 >Jet (your so-called dud). His last four shootdowns were all fighters
 >(3 Lightnings and 1 Mosquito). BTW, German fighters were ordered to
 >ignore allied fighters and go after the bombers.

I would suggest that you subscribe to the WWII 
Lists or to H-War and post your suggestions 
there.  Others more knowledgeable on modern 
scholarship shall soon set you right.  The Allies 
have not, to my knowledge, ever acknowledged a 
shoot-down by an ME-262 and the modern Luftwaffe 
concedes that the ME-262 did not score any kills 
on Allied fighters.  And I cannot recall any 
ME-262 kills of Allied bombers, either.  The 
plane was just too little, too late, and too 
limited in its abilities.  Again, had it been 
fielded in 1942 or 1943, when petrol was not a 
major issue and when trained pilots were 
available, things would have been different.

See my earlier post as to what constitutes a 
confirmed kill.  Dig around and find a single 
confirmed kill accepted by both sides and by 
modern scholars and I'll be delighted to hear of 
it.  Even the noted aviation scholar William 
Green was unable to ever confirm a single kill by 
the ME-262 though he tried hard to do so for two decades.

 >I don't know what H-War is. Hopefully it is not a collection of people
 >that generate facts by some weird kind of consenus. If this is the
 >best they can come up with I'll go with recognised, published authors
 >of non-fiction history - like MacDonald.

H-War is part of H-Net, the academic set of 
social science lists run by the University of 
Michigan.  Almost all of the folks who belong are 
professional military historians.  Instead of 
sneering, why not subscribe, post your comments, 
and wait for some solid response by those who 
have spent their careers in pondering these 
matters?  The same goes for MacDonald:  a worthy 
source but one now so dated as to have little 
standing in the academic community save for COMPANY COMMANDER.

 >I believe it was the Red Army's massive gains of 1943 and early 1944
 >that allowed them "their massive gains in the summer of 1944".
 >
 >Perhaps it's time to get some books written by Soviet and German
 >authors. You been reading too much of books like "War as I Knew It", etc.

Greg, you display a distressing tendency to get 
into personal attacks.  Instead of that, I would 
suggest that you read books written after 
1960.  There is a lot available today on the 
Eastern Front and your local library probably has 
a few of these.  Read them and learn that were it 
not for massive Allied supplements to the Soviet 
war effort ("Lend Lease") they would have 
collapsed in early 1943.  (See the old but still 
authoritative Pogue on Marshall for 
details.)  You might want to read a selection of 
Colonel Glantz' works on the Eastern Front as he 
is the scholar most highly regarded both in the 
West and in the East.  I disagree with a few of 
is conclusions but, all in all, I find his 
assessment of the Soviet contribution to the 
Allied victory in the Second World War 
reasonable.  Again, I don't agree with all he 
opines but the ?stfront is his turf and is not mine.

Me?  I'd rather be discussing the IIIcK camera 
and leave the military stuff to H-War and the WWII Lists where it belongs.

Marc




msmall@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh b?s fir gun ghr?s fir!



In reply to: Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from wrs111445 at yahoo.com (Bill Smith) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from gregj.lorenzo at shaw.ca (GREG LORENZO) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from gregj.lorenzo at shaw.ca (GREG LORENZO) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)