Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/01/15

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Subject: [Leica] There's something about German design ...
From: gregj.lorenzo at shaw.ca (GREG LORENZO)
Date: Mon Jan 15 08:10:00 2007
References: <200701150418.l0F4IlM8086419@server1.waverley.reid.org> <315738.85149.qm@web90412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200701150654.l0F6svXV004648@server1.waverley.reid.org>

Marc James Small writes in part: 

> 
> The M4 Sherman has received a lot of hostility 
> from the Disdain and Hysteria Channels in recent 
> years but this is undeserved.  It was a solid 
> vehicle capable of solid work.  Sure, it had 
> limitations but one part of doctrine is to teach 
> soldiers how to make the best of their gear and, 
> in the end, the Sherman turned into a real 
> workhorse which effectively crushed German armor by early 1945.

This is not corrrect, most German armor on the Western Front was put out of 
action by air power (i.e. rocket firing Typhoons, etc.) and to a lesser 
degree by anti-tank guns. A significant amount of German equipment, 
including tanks was abandoned in perfect working condition when the Germans 
retreated east after the battle of Falaise. Germany had no effective 
airforce left to provide battlefield cover at this point in the war and 
could only move effectively at night.

> To put it a different way, if the Panther and the 
> Tiger were so great, and the Sherman so lousy, 
> how then did we win the War?  If the 
> Messerschmidt and the Focke-Wulf were so 
> superior, and the P-47 and P-51 so bad, why did 
> the Germans have no air cover left by the time of 
> OVERLORD?  The true answer, of course, is that 
> our gear worked better, all in all, than did 
> theirs, and our doctrine was superior, so that we 
> were able to grind them into little bitty pieces by early 1945.
>

This is also incorrect (except for the fact that Germany had no air force to 
speak of at this point). German prop fighter aircraft were just as good as 
allied aircraft. Their jet aircraft clearly superior. They lacked trained 
pilots after 1942.

World War II was won primarily on the Eastern Front by the **Soviet Union**. 
This is summed up nicely by the author Charles B. MacDonald in his book 
"World War II: The War Against Germany and Italy".

MacDonald wrote the following paragraph:
 
* "The German armed forces and the nation were prostrate, beaten to a degree 
never before seen in modern times. Hardly any organized units of the German 
Army remained except in Norway, Czechoslovakia, and the Balkans, and these 
would soon capitulate. What remained of the air arm was too demoralized even 
for a final suicidal effort, and the residue of the German Navy lay helpless 
in captured northern ports. Through five years of war, the German armed 
forces had lost over 3 million men killed, 263,000 of them in the west, 
since D-day. The United States lost 135,576 dead in Western Europe, while 
Britain, Canada, France, and other Allies incurred after D-day approximately 
60,000 military deaths."

* Source: Army Historical Series, Office of The Chief of Military History, 
US Army.

On land, the Western Allies (primarily the USA) in WWII clearly won the 
Pacific War against Japan. North Africa, Italy and Western Europe were very 
much a side show in the fight against Germany. Strategic bombing of German 
plants and cities and German occupied Europe and naval actions excepted. 


Greg J. Lorenzo
Calgary, Alberta

Replies: Reply from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Reply from raimo.m.korhonen at uusikaupunki.fi (Raimo K) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
In reply to: Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from wrs111445 at yahoo.com (Bill Smith) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)