Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2020/02/28

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Subject: [Leica] Comparing portraits with Noctilux Monochrom and film
From: lluisripollphotography at gmail.com (Lluis Ripoll)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 18:08:22 +0100
References: <B32FB319-05E4-4D9A-B660-B249CC6D24FD@gmail.com> <1AC6350E-8375-4248-8449-BE03B19193D8@bex.net> <CA+yJO1DEF4ATtc_6r+Sm8gQbVb9kjaWdrxh-bWa6kxTdOQQjtQ@mail.gmail.com> <8E410732-901B-4B9C-BF43-731CFB426F2C@rabinergroup.com>

Hi all,

Thank you very much for looking and for your interesting comments, I think 
firtsly we we have consider we are watching an image in a Monitor, not 
printed. The digital images looks clean and even generally better in a 
montor than a image from film. Right now I would like compare these images 
once printed, everyone according his own media, I think that for my 
preferences I would like more the darkroom image, these are simply 
different, and finally is a personal choose.  The Monochrom is able to give 
great images but actually I?m not printing any more inkjet, I work in the 
darkroom and I like better the rendition I obtain with wet prints than 
laserjet prints,  in my opinion the monitor don?t give an exact idea about 
how will be the image once printed, generally I do my copies with Ilford FB 
Variocontrast 11x14 paper, enlarging with the technique of  Split Grade,  it 
can give IMHO a larger tonality and manage better the contrast than with 
traditional filters. About the cost, this is a diffrent discussion. 

Cheers
Lluis


> El 25 febr 2020, a les 20:07, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> va 
> escriure:
> 
> I agree with Howard and Tina and others on the superior Leica Monochrom so 
> called results but I think if we shot film and printed it in our darkroom 
> or had a custom print made we'd know what we were looking at.  A small 
> machine print otherwise known as a snapshot we don?t.   A snapshot printed 
> for pennies untouched by human hands tells you little or nothing about 
> what the 6 thousand dollar lens you have on your 6 thousand dollar camera 
> is capable of normally doing so lets not delve into the subtleties of 
> output.
> Night shooting now is no wide open capturing a thin sliver wide open at 
> squeeze and pray shutter speeds kind of deal.   
> We?re now both capturing action and getting plenty of depth of field; 
> both. 
> A handheld digital shooter shoots the pants off of someone shooting film 
> Noctilux or not it?s not even remotely close. We?ve left them many many 
> stops behind. Many. Both f and shutter. 
> A reason to be suspicious of film to digital comparisons which talk about 
> in nebulous terms how film has more je ne sais quoi smirk smirk is the 
> fact that close to none of the serious shooters out there have not long 
> ago sold their film cameras and never looked back.  The "big film 
> resurgence" is a Fig Newton of someone's well-paid PR hack imagination.
> I?d shot film at night for decades but by mid 2001 started shooting bricks 
> of Neopan 1600 with an f1 Noctilux M I had just bought which never came 
> off my M6 and developing and printing the results in my darkroom mainly 
> 11x14?s and a fair amount of 16x20?s. 
> Was really way better than Tri X with an f1.4 but by 2004 digital hit it 
> big and was way, way, way, better. 
> I think the hair thin depth of field effect has limited use I shoot wide 
> open once in a blue new moon. 
> It?s f  ISO12,500 and be there for me with my D750 Nikon a camera in low 
> light which is feeling its age as I am. I?m sure ISO12,500 has been left 
> far in the dust by the newer generation of cameras in the past few years 
> I'd not mind shooting with..
> 
> -- 
> Mark William Rabiner
> 
> ?On 2/25/20, 8:19 AM, "LUG on behalf of Tina Manley via LUG" 
> <lug-bounces+mark=rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of lug at 
> leica-users.org> wrote:
> 
>    I agree with Howard.
> 
>    Tina
> 
>    On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Howard L Ritter Jr via LUG <
>    lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
> 
>> Lluis, I have just the opposite reaction. I think the MM image is superior
>> in just about every way. To me, the film image looks like a flat image 
>> that
>> has been recorded on a flat surface, like I?m looking at a piece of film,
>> while the MM image has smoothness, richness of dynamic range, contrast, 
>> and
>> depth, like I?m looking through it into reality.
>> 
>> Of course, this impression has nothing to do with the fact that I love my
>> own MM?
>> 
>> ?howard
>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2020, at 7:44 PM, Lluis Ripoll via LUG <lug at 
>>> leica-users.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> These ones are with Leica MP, Noctilux wide open, film Ilford HP5 rated
>> at nominal ISO 400, developed with D23  1:1
>>> 
>>> Diana (3)
>>> <http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/luisrq/Portraits/2020F020209.jpg.html>
>>> 
>>> Diana (4)
>>> <http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/luisrq/Portraits/2020F020211.jpg.html>
>>> 
>>> Please compare Diana (4) with this one Diana (1) with the Leica
>> Monochrom CCD, Noctilux f1 wide open, at ISO 1600
>>> 
>>> <
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/luisrq/Portraits/20200213_L1020137.jpg.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think that film?s structure or texture gives despite a very small
>> grain, more relief to the portrait, it looks to me more alive?. What do 
>> you
>> think?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for looking, your c&c are welcome
>>> 
>>> Saludos cordiales
>>> Lluis
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
>    -- 
>    Tina Manley
>    www.tinamanley.com
>    http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley
>    
> <http://www.alamy.com/stock-photography/3B49552F-90A0-4D0A-A11D-2175C937AA91/Tina+Manley.html>
> 
>    _______________________________________________
>    Leica Users Group.
>    See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from lluisripollphotography at gmail.com (Lluis Ripoll) ([Leica] Comparing portraits with Noctilux Monochrom and film)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard L Ritter Jr) ([Leica] Comparing portraits with Noctilux Monochrom and film)
Message from tmanley at gmail.com (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Comparing portraits with Noctilux Monochrom and film)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Comparing portraits with Noctilux Monochrom and film)