Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/02/09

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?
From: photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:27:01 +0100
References: <4AE947AB-AF74-4E4A-B0AE-DA96FB5D330A@frozenlight.eu> <261015A2-ED0E-4C3A-87BC-2AFB15E8F946@frozenlight.eu> <5CDA7FB5-D644-46CD-9E7F-468F72760406@gmail.com> <AANLkTikk6WJG4pHSow0SpioQ61LCrELs0MzU36Cvh=rk@mail.gmail.com> <7D792F03-C902-4EAE-ACF5-18B4201BFE4A@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTimo7cNyTfBuLh18QbE11LQ5DxTBWZ4CM9ydk_oP@mail.gmail.com>

Geoff, I know you have a strong loyalty to Leica, as do I. After all, I have 
invested several thousand Euro in Leica equipment since I returned to the 
fold in 2008. And I love the results when thins work (which is most of the 
time, in fairness).

But I just came back from a walk, during which I made the following mental 
calculation: since I took up photography in 1985, I have owned cameras made 
by Pentax, Canon, Olympus, Leica, Hasselblad, Mamiya, Rollei, Fuji and 
Panasonic. Of all those brands, the only one that ever needed repair was 
Leica--both my M7 and M8. Hence my analogy with Italian motorcycles in a 
previous post. I drool over Ducati, but I know that a Honda is much less 
likely to leave me stranded.

Cheers,
Nathan


Nathan Wajsman
Alicante, Spain
http://www.frozenlight.eu
http://www.greatpix.eu
http://www.nathanfoto.com
PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog

YNWA







On Feb 9, 2011, at 10:16 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:

> Nathan, I think that there are different issues confused here.
> The fault with fine lines in the sample you showed is not the same as what
> other people call 'banding'. That is more broader bands of uneven tone, not
> a pattern of fine regular lines like your shot has. I have never seen that
> particular effect before(from any camera or posted by anyone). It sounds
> like it is puzzling the Leica Camera technical people?
> 
> On low light performance the M9 is anecdotally considered to be at least a
> stop better in low light regarding noise. My personal experience supports
> that.
> 
> 
> I looked at what I had from M8 from 1/20th sec down to 12 secs (381 frames)
> and have no evidence or banding nor the fine lines fault that you have 
> shown
> in that first photo.
> Here's something that meets the criteria and contains all on topic subjects
> too ;-)
> 
> 1/8th f/2.4 1250 ISO M8
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/hoppyman/1/T2.jpg.html
> 
> Cheers
> Geoff
> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
> 
> 
> On 10 February 2011 06:54, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> wrote:
> 
>> Tina, the light in this place was such that ISO 1250 was required, despite
>> the fast lens. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect decent 
>> performance
>> in such conditions.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Nathan
>> 
>> Nathan Wajsman
>> Alicante, Spain
>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>> 
>> YNWA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 9, 2011, at 9:38 PM, Tina Manley wrote:
>> 
>>> Never seen it on my M9, or my M8s for that matter.  I never used the M8s
>>> over 800 ISO, though.  With film, I very occasionally had to push TMax
>> 400
>>> to 800 and I used TMax 1600 for candle-light - maybe 10 rolls in 40
>> years.
>>> I don't see any reason for using extreme ISOs when we have Leica fast
>>> lenses.
>>> 
>>> Tina
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 9, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Just an update...while Leica is studying the original DNG file and has
>>>> fallen silent, I have just downloaded another batch of photos shot on
>> Sunday
>>>> in a bar, and again out of 45 pics about 4 or 5 are affected. This time
>> I
>>>> used a different card and a different lens, so my only conclusion is
>> that
>>>> the M8 sensor cannot cope with low light very well, or at least not my
>> M8
>>>> sensor. Does not exactly inspire confidence and gives me serious pause
>> when
>>>> considering any future purchase of an M9.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> does this occur with an M9? reported?
>>>> 
>>>> anyone...
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am slowly coming to the conclusion (not just based on this incident,
>>>> but my overall experience) that Leica is like an Italian sports car or
>>>> motorcycle: brilliant when it works but unreliable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>>> 
>>>>> YNWA
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just unloaded a memory card with about 60 Leica M8 images. Of those,
>>>> four had annoying banding such as this one:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> http://www.greatpix.eu/All/Picture-A-Day/4253606_netUM#1166286723_jgdU7-O-LB
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is the first time I have seen this since buying the M8 in
>> December
>>>> 2008. I suppose I should concluded that Leica's quality control is
>> precisely
>>>> tuned so that the thing starts acting up just after the 2-year warranty
>>>> expires.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? If this gets worse, I
>>>> will have to send the M8 to Solms, good thing I have my GF-1....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Nathan (not a happy camper this Monday morning)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tina Manley, ASMP
>>> www.tinamanley.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 



Replies: Reply from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
In reply to: Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)