Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/08/03

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Subject: [Leica] What are the rumors around Leica and Photokina? WAS : Leica annual report
From: benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:38:26 +0930
References: <4C57B325.80602@threshinc.com> <AANLkTin1-k_0JF7yzVDvcysts1_3g=DA-0XwqUz1wdcz@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTin1F13BmBGrSshHB7ybTcF=Ry173pzt5AyCgU7+@mail.gmail.com>

>> I'm still hoping for a digital camera with a luminance-only,
>> monochrome sensor. ?It's probably just a dream, but I can dream.
> Bear Images made a 40MP monochrome only sensor, but according to some, the
> improvement is not "that much."

The Kodak monochrome digital sensors produce a lot more resolution
than their comparable sensors that have a Bayer array, gain about two
stops in signal to noise ratio and about two stops of dynamic range.
I still don't like the way my digital cameras or others that I've
tested present the highlights as compared to a really good print or
multiple pass scan from a good negative.  The Nikon D2x was the
closest to 'good', but it is huge and really heavy.

> OTOH, if they can make a monochrome full frame sensor with much higher 
> tonal
> depth, that would be another story.

The Kodak sensors I'm referring to gain 2-3 stops of dynamic range.
This is what I'm really interested in.

>> I have heard the same comments about the 50/2 (too expensive to
>> improve performance) but now that Leica aren't scared to charge $5K
>> for a lens, they might go for it. ?I hope so: the modern 50/2 lenses
>> are all essentially tweaks on the same six element design. ?I'd like
>> to see some innovation and some modern design incorporated into it.
> But why? The 50 'cron is often said to be one of the best lens ever. What
> can be improved on it? Unlike the 35 'lux ASPH, I don't think people are
> complaining about focus shift or close focus performance?

The 0.95 Nocti is currently the best 50 mm lens in the Leica stable.
That seems perverse to me.  The 50/2 is very good in terms of corner
sharpness and distortion, and its tonal rendition is lovely but it
flares a lot (I am currently in possession of my fifth sample and have
tested more than 10 others, they all flare if subjected to the right
circumstances) and field flatness is less good than some other
comparable lenses.  I guess, in short, I disagree that it is 'one of
the best lenses ever'.  In fact I like the Pentax 43 mm lens I got
from you a whole lot better than any of the six element 50 mm
Summicrons.

> Put it this way:
> 50/1.4 ASPH - light year ahead performance wise (yes I know some people 
> like
> the old one for bokeh, magic look etc., but you know what I mean)
> 70/2 ASPH, much smaller, much better performance vs. the old 75/1.4 'lux
> (yes, I know, the 'lux has better bokeh, which is why I am keeping it...)
> Noctilux /0.95 ASPH, much better performance and even 11% faster!! (and 
> this
> one has no dispute!)
> 21/24 ASPH 'lux. much faster
> 35/1.4 ASPH II, no focus shift
> "everyone" says that the 50/2 optic design is at a sweet spot, and that the
> Summicron or the Planar are pretty much as good as it gets. What can a new
> design do?

Simple - be the very best 50 mm lens in the Leica stable.  50/2 is a
specification where they could design a lens that would wipe the floor
with all the competition, including their own 50s.  The current lens
doesn't do that, in fact, the only thing it does better than the
50/1.4 asph is, as Erin put it "The close up performance of the
Summicron is definitely better than that of the new Summilux and if
you do not need the high speed, it still has its virtues".  A new
lens, hopefully, would set the standard and still retain the 39 mm
filter size.

Marty

>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Peter Klein <pklein at threshinc.com> 
>> wrote:
>> > The annual LHSA meeting is in Wetzlar/Solms this fall, and if I'm not
>> > mistaken, it coincides with Photokina. There was some talk that Leica
>> asked
>> > LHSA to have their meeting in Germany this year, that "something big" 
>> > was
>> > going to happen, and wouldn't you like to be there for it? Now we have
>> this
>> > "teaser" in the annual report.
>> >
>> > *Something* is in the works. ?But who knows what that something is? ?It
>> > could be anything from a major new model to an exciting new rebadged
>> > Panasonic point-and-shoot. ?As to the 50 Summicron, I've heard someone
>> from
>> > Leica (I think Stefan Daniel) say that they had looked at improving the
>> 50
>> > Summicron, but it simply wasn't cost-effective to do so. Of course, they
>> > could change their minds. ?In the face of a $5,000 Summilux Asph, hey, a
>> > $4,000 Summicron would seem positively economical.
>> >
>> > If a new camera model truly is in the works, I'm with Mark on preferring
>> > something with better high ISO to more resolution.
>> >
>> > Stay tuned to the rumor mill for further hints, and you, too, can become
>> > part of the carefully calculated Internet buzz. Meanwhile, I will
>> continue
>> > to shoot pictures with my laughably obsolete M8 and my creaky legacy
>> lenses.
>> >
>> > --Peter
>> >
>> >> make sense a new 50/2 asph is on order
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 7:46 PM, <red735i at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Wrong.. the oldest lens in the M lineup is the 50 Summicron.
>> >> >
>> >> > it is due for an update.....if for no other reason other than it has
>> not
>> >> > been updated in the past MANY years....
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Frank
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >> i think the oldest is the 90/apo.
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Leica Users Group.
>> >> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.wordpress.com>
> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all previous
> replies in your msgs. ]
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


Replies: Reply from jbm at jbm.org (Jeff Moore) ([Leica] What are the rumors around Leica and Photokina? WAS : Leica annual report)
Reply from jbm at jbm.org (Jeff Moore) ([Leica] What are the rumors around Leica and Photokina? WAS : Leica annual report)
In reply to: Message from pklein at threshinc.com (Peter Klein) ([Leica] What are the rumors around Leica and Photokina? WAS : Leica annual report)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] What are the rumors around Leica and Photokina? WAS : Leica annual report)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] What are the rumors around Leica and Photokina? WAS : Leica annual report)