Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/03/28

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Subject: [Leica] All cats are grey at f8
From: passaro.vince at gmail.com (Vince Passaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:02:59 -0400
References: <C7D4337D.602F7%mark@rabinergroup.com> <8AD911E3-7526-4588-B5DA-CD10F922F5B6@mac.com>

Tarek--

Of course you don't understand. Don Rickles was an American comedian. he was
well known for shooting at f/22 even in the darkest lounges of Vegas, where
guys like Norm Crosby opened for Englebert and Don Ho imitators.  He
(Rickles) had to use a flash of course. One of his tricks -- he became very
good at this --  was to bounce the light off his head.

Vince

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Tarek Charara <tcharara at mac.com> wrote:

> I don't understand this discussion... You choose whatever f-stop you need
> to get the result you desire, no? If I need depth of field I close, when
> there isn't any light, I open the aperture, change ISO or use a tripod. 
> What
> is so complicated? That goes for all brands of lenses.
>
> All the best from the south of France!
>
> Tarek
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Tarek Charara
> <http://www.pix-that-stimulate.com>
>
> NO ARCHIVE
>
>
>
> Le 28 mars 10 ? 04:13, Mark Rabiner a ?crit :
>
>
>  Frank writes:
>>> "If you are shooting at f5.6 Leica lenses are a bit of a waste of
>>> money. My Leica 50mm f1.4 is noticeable better that my Nikon 50mm f1.4
>>> -at- f1.4, but at f5.6 i see very little difference. The price
>>> differential is almost 10:1.
>>> That is my experience in general, sure all lenses get better stopped
>>> down, very particularly the cheap ones. What makes Leica worth the
>>> money (if you have it) is it loses so little quality as you open up,
>>> compared to others.
>>> IME."
>>>
>>>
>>> I echo Franks opinion. A number of years ago one of the big US photo
>>> magazines did a survey of all major manufacturer 50mm lenses on the
>>> market. I forgot whether it was Modern Photography or Popular
>>> Photography. The survey included resolution, flare, fall off,
>>> distortion and all the usual suspects. While there were distinct
>>> differences wide open, not always in Leica's favor, when closed down
>>> to f8, all lenses were virtually identical. This finding was more or
>>> less confirmed by Canon in their detailed lens guide of 1969. In fact
>>> Canon said that when it came to photographic quality, lenses designed
>>> for lesser maximum apertures were better at reduced lens stops than
>>> faster lenses. Generally a f3.5 lens stopped down to f8 would
>>> outperform a f2 lens stopped down to the same aperture. The slower
>>> lenses had fewer elements and were of simpler design. Given the
>>> technology of that period this implied lower flare and internal
>>> reflection. Erwin Puts concludes that the f3.5 50mm Elmar lasted so
>>> long in the quality lens arsenal because the design was so simple that
>>> technical improvements in lens construction, including coating and
>>> rare earth glasses, made little difference in actual performance. I
>>> don't know if advances in lens design have closed the gap but if you
>>> commonly shoot at apertures of f5.6 through f16, then $3000 objectives
>>> are overkill. Better to use the money on a two year supply of single
>>> malt scotch or a lifetime supply of Belgian ale (or 100 Tilly hats).
>>> Larry Z
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I love you guys' opinions. You should all agree with each other.
>> Any commercial photographer who shot 99 percent of their jobs they were
>> hired to do wide open would never collect and would be laughed out of
>> town.
>> Wide open shooting with its super limited in focus depth of field look is
>> a
>> rare look applicable for a small minority of the photographs people want
>> to
>> be looking at or hire people to make for them.
>> Photography is not rhetorical philosophy. Its a craft and a job.
>> Does "Leica shooters always shoot wide open" sound good to you?
>> It sounds just a great to a working photographer as
>> '"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
>> Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;"
>> Its not how things sound or read that counts. Its how they look in print.
>> More often than not the client wants to see not just the subject but also
>> the environment that subject is sitting in. not a mass of wonderful bokeh.
>>
>>
>>
>> [Rabs]
>> Mark William Rabiner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] All cats are grey at f8)
Message from tcharara at mac.com (Tarek Charara) ([Leica] All cats are grey at f8)