Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/03/28

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Subject: [Leica] All cats are grey at f8
From: tcharara at mac.com (Tarek Charara)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:58:16 +0200
References: <C7D4337D.602F7%mark@rabinergroup.com>

I don't understand this discussion... You choose whatever f-stop you  
need to get the result you desire, no? If I need depth of field I  
close, when there isn't any light, I open the aperture, change ISO or  
use a tripod. What is so complicated? That goes for all brands of  
lenses.

All the best from the south of France!

Tarek

-------------------------------------------------
Tarek Charara
<http://www.pix-that-stimulate.com>

NO ARCHIVE



Le 28 mars 10 ? 04:13, Mark Rabiner a ?crit :

>> Frank writes:
>> "If you are shooting at f5.6 Leica lenses are a bit of a waste of
>> money. My Leica 50mm f1.4 is noticeable better that my Nikon 50mm  
>> f1.4
>> -at- f1.4, but at f5.6 i see very little difference. The price
>> differential is almost 10:1.
>> That is my experience in general, sure all lenses get better stopped
>> down, very particularly the cheap ones. What makes Leica worth the
>> money (if you have it) is it loses so little quality as you open up,
>> compared to others.
>> IME."
>>
>>
>> I echo Franks opinion. A number of years ago one of the big US photo
>> magazines did a survey of all major manufacturer 50mm lenses on the
>> market. I forgot whether it was Modern Photography or Popular
>> Photography. The survey included resolution, flare, fall off,
>> distortion and all the usual suspects. While there were distinct
>> differences wide open, not always in Leica's favor, when closed down
>> to f8, all lenses were virtually identical. This finding was more or
>> less confirmed by Canon in their detailed lens guide of 1969. In fact
>> Canon said that when it came to photographic quality, lenses designed
>> for lesser maximum apertures were better at reduced lens stops than
>> faster lenses. Generally a f3.5 lens stopped down to f8 would
>> outperform a f2 lens stopped down to the same aperture. The slower
>> lenses had fewer elements and were of simpler design. Given the
>> technology of that period this implied lower flare and internal
>> reflection. Erwin Puts concludes that the f3.5 50mm Elmar lasted so
>> long in the quality lens arsenal because the design was so simple  
>> that
>> technical improvements in lens construction, including coating and
>> rare earth glasses, made little difference in actual performance. I
>> don't know if advances in lens design have closed the gap but if you
>> commonly shoot at apertures of f5.6 through f16, then $3000  
>> objectives
>> are overkill. Better to use the money on a two year supply of single
>> malt scotch or a lifetime supply of Belgian ale (or 100 Tilly hats).
>> Larry Z
>>
>
>
> I love you guys' opinions. You should all agree with each other.
> Any commercial photographer who shot 99 percent of their jobs they  
> were
> hired to do wide open would never collect and would be laughed out  
> of town.
> Wide open shooting with its super limited in focus depth of field  
> look is a
> rare look applicable for a small minority of the photographs people  
> want to
> be looking at or hire people to make for them.
> Photography is not rhetorical philosophy. Its a craft and a job.
> Does "Leica shooters always shoot wide open" sound good to you?
> It sounds just a great to a working photographer as
> '"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
> Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;"
> Its not how things sound or read that counts. Its how they look in  
> print.
> More often than not the client wants to see not just the subject but  
> also
> the environment that subject is sitting in. not a mass of wonderful  
> bokeh.
>
>
>
> [Rabs]
> Mark William Rabiner
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] All cats are grey at f8)
Reply from passaro.vince at gmail.com (Vince Passaro) ([Leica] All cats are grey at f8)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] All cats are grey at f8)