Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/01/28

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Fake Leicas - again
From: leica at web-options.com (Bob W)
Date: Wed Jan 28 12:04:58 2009
References: <200901281207.n0SC6f2J051027@server1.waverley.reid.org> <1BE4EFA9-854D-47FB-90E7-4C3620CEE401@optonline.net>

> could it be told  
> as a fraud?

Fraud is a matter of intention. It doesn't turn on whether or not the camera
is original, but on how the owner represents it to other people. If he
deliberately tries to deceive other people about its authenticity, then it's
a fraud. 

Whether a camera assembled as you describe can be spotted as not original
will depend on who's looking at it. I once bought a 50/1.4 lens that had
been assembled from various other lenses and I didn't know at the time that
I bought it. It was only when it started falling apart and I had an expert
look at it that I learned the horrible truth. But even experts can be
fooled. I gather that the pre-M4 Leicas were hand-built and parts fitted to
the specific camera, rather than being assembled from standard components,
so unless it was cannibalised by a Leica craftsman it would seem to me that
parts wouldn't fit particularly well together.

Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+leica=web-options.com@leica-users.org 
> [mailto:lug-bounces+leica=web-options.com@leica-users.org] On 
> Behalf Of Lawrence Zeitlin
> Sent: 28 January 2009 16:56
> To: lug@leica-users.org
> Cc: Lawrence Zeitlin
> Subject: [Leica] Re: Fake Leicas - again
> 
> Back to the topic of fake Leicas.
> 
> Apart from the serial number on the top plate, are there any 
> internal  
> marks or numbers which will identify one Leica in the same series  
> from another? My favorite pocket Leica is a FrankenLeica IIIc which  
> was assembled from the components of three defunct cameras. The top  
> plate and range finder are from one camera, the body extrusion from  
> another, and the internal mechanism from a third. The camera works  
> fine. If the top plate of a battered KreigsMarine or 
> Luftwaffe camera  
> were attached to a pristine same era IIIc chassis, could it be told  
> as a fraud?
> 
> No evil plans, just curious.
> 
> Larry Z
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2009, at 1:01 PM, Leonard wrote:
> This is where it becomes very difficult to spot a fake. The camera
> has all the details it's a real Leica II. It most likely is. If
> original, the engraving and insignia can transform a common $400
> Leica II into a collectible worth thousands of dollars.
> 
> The k version Leica IIIc is more common but valuable and is a target
> for counterfeiters. Here a $300 IIIc can become a $5000 collectible
> if done right.
> 
> Thanks for the link, Peter.
> Len
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2009, at 7:20 AM, Peter Dzwig wrote:
> 
> For an interesting discussion on Nazi engravings and a mystery
> Leica see:
> 
> http://www.cameraquest.com/kriegsma.htm
> 
> I wonder if Steve ever found anything more. Steve?
> 
> ...and for a low temperature IIIc that may have been a Luftwaffe
> camera see:
> 
> http://www.cameraquest.com/leica_iiic_k_gray.htm
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 


In reply to: Message from lrzeitlin at optonline.net (Lawrence Zeitlin) ([Leica] Re: Fake Leicas - again)