Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/10/28
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]><x-flowed>Hi Henning,
>I just like the way the e-CVT transmission works, the cleverest thing
>on a production car IMO. There was no economical sense for me owning
>the Prius, and it is a poor long distance car - at steady speed there
>is no benefit from the regeneration technology and then you simply
>have a car with a 1,5l Atkinson cycle engine designed for high load
>efficiency rather than power. Pretty boring for long trips....
>Frank
>
Hi Frank,
Yes, the Prius is interesting from a number of points of view and I
agree that the transmission is one of them, but I really don't like
driving it much compared to any of the cars I've had with the
exception of the 1967 Ford Falcon that my wife brought into the
marriage 38 years ago.
When my sister-in-law first got one and I got to drive it, the first
thing I did was turn off the display since I'm of the opinion that
unnecessary distractions in cars are not a good idea. When she got
the car back she though I had killed it because she hadn't realized
the display could be turned off. Took about an hour to calm her down.
She lives in Edmonton, and I have driven it in quite windy conditions
on highways and rural roads as well as in the city. It definitely is
more of a city car than one for the open road. Also, as you noted
1.5l is a bit small for a rather heavy car.
A couple of years ago - probably more like 10 - I had the chance to
test drive the GM EV-1 for a couple of weeks. A bad car with a great
powertrain. That car had all the virtues of electric engines: great
low speed torque, smooth and continuous power but long charge times
and a short range. The car drove like a clapped out Chevy Cavalier.
The Prius handles better, but unfortunately it's still a Toyota with
their 'sofa on wheels' approach to driver isolation, except that on
certain country roads or other rough conditions the suspension
doesn't know what to do.
I can't find any ideal car, I can't find any ideal camera, I don't
know what to do....
:-)
>On 28 Oct, 2008, at 05:37, Henning Wulff wrote:
>
>> I've read many of the comparisons, and not only from hybrid oriented
>> sites.
>>
>> As I mentioned, the fuel economy achieved depends a lot on where and
>> how you drive. Whether or not you get a payback depends on how many
>> miles you drive per year, and how close the Prius comes to being the
>> type of car you want/need/enjoy. I'm very familiar with the Prius,
>> as I get to drive one at various times every year. I mention the
>> Prius as it's the only one that is truly in the running, as the
>> other hybrids are definitely not economically sound buys unless you
>> _really_ drive a lot of miles.
>>
>> I'm also quite familiar with the use of Priuses as taxis here in
>> Vancouver, where there are quite a few including the one mentioned
>> in the article below.
>>
>> The upcharge of $4500 may apply, depending on what type of car you
>> compare it to. It's rather lower than my calculations, but even at
>> that a good diesel car would still be a lot better buy under almost
>> all circumstances. The $4500 is more than most owners will get paid
>> back over the term of their ownership, based on average mileage per
>> year, fuel costs and average length of ownership.
>>
>> The total life cycle carbon footprint is not in favour of the
>> hybrid, either compared a good diesel. On the other hand, the Prius
>> is a far better choice both on a practical level and certainly on an
>> ecological and 'feel good' level than the choice that most people in
>> North America make. It's a big step in the right direction.
>>
>>
>>
>>> According to a Toyota service rep. about $4,500. However:
>>> Toyota Prius Frequently Asked Questions Click on a question to jump
>>> to the
>>> answer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> What is a hybrid
>>>> vehicle?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q1
>>>> >
>>>> Do I need to plug the Prius
>>>>in?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q2
>>>> >
>>>> What Petrol do I use in the
>>>>Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q3
>>>> >
>>>> What fuel economy can I expect from the
>>>>Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q4
>>>> >
>>>> How does the Prius perform and handle compared to conventional
>>>> vehicles?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q5>
>>>> Is the Prius available in a manual
>>>>transmission?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q6
>>>> >
>>>> Can the Prius run on electricity when it runs out of
>>>>petrol?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q7
>>>> >
>>>> How does the Prius compare to conventional cars with respect to
>>>> safety
>>> features? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q8>
>>>> Who can service my Prius and how often does it need to be
>>>>done?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q9
>>>> >
>>>> Who can do repair work if something were to go wrong with my Prius?
>>>> <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q10>
>>>> How long will the Prius
>>>>last?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q11
>>>> >
>>>> How long does the battery last in the Prius, and how much will it
>>>> cost to
>>> replace? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q12>
>>>> Can I tow with the
>>>>Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q13
>>>> >
>>>> Do the back seats fold down in the
>>>>Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q14
>>>> >
>>>> Can the Prius be
>>>>jump-started?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q15
>>>> >
>>>> How can I be sure the mileage is genuine on the cars you are
>>>> selling?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q16>
>>>> Does the price on your cars include a warranty and on-road
>>>>costs?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q17
>>>> >
>>>
>>>> Can I trade in my non-hybrid car on a hybrid car at *The Clean
>>>> Green Car
>>> Company*? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q24>
>>>
>>>> Are English language owner's manuals available for the
>>>>Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q23
>>>> >
>>>> What are LEVs, ULEVs, SULEVs and
>>>>AT-PZEVs?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q18
>>>> >
>>>> What is the emissions rating of
>>>>Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q19
>>>> >
>>>> I don't live in Auckland; can I buy a car from you and if so what
>>>> is the
>>> process? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q20>
>>>> What's the difference between Toyota's and Honda's Hybrid
>>>>Systems?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q21
>>>> >
>>>> What is the downside of owning a Hybrid
>>>>car?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q22
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> What is a hybrid vehicle?
>>>
>>> A hybrid car combines a petrol-powered engine with an electric
>>> motor to
>>> provide improved fuel economy and help lower emissions. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> Do I need to plug the Prius in?
>>>
>>> Never. The Prius automatically recharges its batteries using
>>> regenerative
>>> braking, or by running the on-board generator. The driver never
>>> needs to
>>> worry about recharging the battery. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> What Petrol do I use in the Prius?
>>>
>>> The Prius runs better on the cheaper 91 octane unleaded. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> What fuel economy can I expect from the Prius?
>>>
>>> You can expect to easily achieve 5ltr/100km (20km/ltr or 56miles/
>>> gallon)
>>> although most of our customers seem to achieve even better results
>>> than this
>>> with some achieving as low as 4.4ltr/100km (22.7km/ltr or 64miles/
>>> gallon)
>>> over a great distance.
>>>
>>>
>>> Typically you can expect between 4.7 and 5.2 litre per 100km
>>> depending on
>>> how you drive. [back to
>>>top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top
>>> >
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> How does the Prius perform and handle compared to conventional
>>> vehicles?
>>>
>>> The Toyota Prius feels and drives like a normal automatic car with
>>> the
>>> exception that when idling and driving at low speeds, the petrol
>>> engine cuts
>>> out, in favour of the electric motor. It is also quieter and smoother
>>> overall than you average car. Although the Toyota Prius Hybrid only
>>> has a
>>> 1500cc petrol engine when combined with the power of the electric
>>> motor it
>>> feels more like a 2.4 litre car to drive. Basically the Toyota Prius
>>> performs just the same as an equivalent sized non-hybrid car - it
>>> achieves
>>> its fantastic fuel economy with no compromise in performance. [back
>>> to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> Is Prius available in a manual transmission?
>>>
>>> No. The Prius doesn't use any kind of transmission found in a
>>> conventional
>>> non-hybrid car. In fact there is no step gear transmission in the
>>> Prius - it
>>> only has one gear ratio. Instead, in the Prius, all the torque is
>>> provided
>>> by the electric motors. However for the end user it is just the
>>> same as any
>>> other automatic car to drive. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> Can Prius run on electricity when it runs out of petrol?
>>>
>>> No. Although the Prius can operate in electric-only mode when
>>> petrol is in
>>> the tank, it is not designed to run without petrol. Doing so could
>>> cause
>>> damage to the hybrid system, so, like any other car, drivers should
>>> be sure
>>> to keep petrol in the tank of their Prius at all times. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> How does Prius compare to conventional cars with respect to safety
>>> features?
>>>
>>> The Prius is equipped with many advanced safety features. The Prius
>>> helps
>>> avoid accidents altogether with a standard Anti-lock Brake System
>>> (ABS). In
>>> an accident, its strong mono-form shape, front & rear crumple
>>> zones, side
>>> intrusion bars and driver & front passenger multi-stage airbags
>>> help shield
>>> its occupants from harm. The battery pack is sealed and has built-in
>>> security measures that completely isolate it from the rest of the
>>> car to
>>> prevent any chance of shock in the case of an accident. The Toyota
>>> Prius
>>> Generation II (2000 - 2003) has an NCAP (New Car Assessment
>>> Program) rating
>>> of 4 stars. This is the highest rating given to a car of its design
>>> year.
>>> The Toyota Prius Generation III (2003 onwards) has an NCAP rating
>>> of 5
>>> stars, the highest rating available. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> Who can service my Prius and how often does it need to be done?
>>>
>>> Any reputable mechanical workshop can do the standard servicing
>>> because the
>>> Prius' service requirements are the same as any non-hybrid car
>>> meaning
>>> it only needs an oil and filter change every 15,000km or one year,
>>> which
>>> ever comes first. The battery pack doesn't require any service, in
>>> the same
>>> way that you don't service the battery in your cell phone and the
>>> electric
>>> motor doesn't require any service, in the same way you don't
>>> service the
>>> electric motor in your washing machine. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> Who can do repair work if something were to go wrong with my Prius?
>>>
>>> In the unlikely event of any problems with your Toyota Prius *The
>>> Clean
>>> Green Car Company* can put you in touch with any one of the 120
>>> independent
>>> workshops nation wide or a Toyota franchise service centre that
>>> have Prius
>>> diagnostic equipment.
>>>
>>> [back to top <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>]
>>>
>>>
>>> How long will the Prius last?
>>>
>>> The Toyota Prius is designed to be as durable as any other Toyota,
>>> which
>>> considering Toyota's reputation, is a pretty long time. [back to
>>> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>
>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> How long does the battery last in the Prius, and how much will it
>>> cost to
>>> replace?
>>>
>>> The Prius battery is designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle and
>>> considering that the Prius is designed to be as durable as any
>>> other Toyota,
>>> and considering Toyota's reputation, that is a pretty long time.
>>> Toyota have
>>> lab data showing the Prius battery can do 290,000km of normal
>>> driving with
>>> absolutely no degradation of the battery's performance. To give
>>> some real
>>> life examples, there is a Taxi driver from British Columbia, Jatinder
>>> Parhar, who has done over 410,000km in his Prius Taxi and has had
>>> to do
>>> nothing to his Prius other than standard servicing. (*click to read
>>> more
>>> here*) <http://www.hybridexperience.ca/
>>> Toyota_Prius.htm#hybridtaxi>. Toyota
>>> has sold over 500,000 Generation II and III Prius worldwide and say
>>> they
>>> have never had to supply a battery pack for replacement due to wear
>>> and
>>> tear. (*click here to read Toyota Press
>>> release*).<http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528
>>> >Given
>>> all this, the price of a replacement battery is probably irrelevant,
>>> however in the extremely unlikely event you needed to replace the
>>> battery in
>>> your Prius, current cost, at time of writing (Feb 2008), is NZ
>>> $4500.00 for a
>>> Generation II Prius and NZ$3150 for a Generation III Prius. However
>>> this is
>>> coming down all the time. When we first looked into this at 3 years
>>> ago the
>>> battery packs were priced at $7000 each. We believe the price will
>>> fall to
>>> around $2000 within a year or so given the increased production of
>>> Hybrid
>>> Vehicles using this type of battery. For piece of mind every Toyota
>>> Prius
>>> brought from The Clean Green Car Company is covered by a 2 year,
>>> unlimited
>>> km Hybrid Car Warranty that includes cover for the battery pack.
>>> [back to
>>> top <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Stasys Petravicius
>>> <stasys1@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Henning- Common sense is a rare commodity these days. We drove
>>>> Mercedes
>>>> diesels from 1971 to about 1990. Averaged about 27 mpg no matter
>>>> how you
>>>> drove them. In 1971 diesel was $0.27 per gallon- so it was $0.01
>>>> per mile
>>>> for fuel. Now it's a big multiple of that. My most efficient car
>>>> gets about
>>>> 18 in town and 25 on the road. No progress in my stable of cars.
>>>> What is the
>>>> cost to change the battery pack in a Toyota Prius? Stasys
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Henning Wulff wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At 4:21 PM -0400 10/27/08, Charles Hehl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just purchased a new GMC diesel truck and it requires ultra
>>>>>> low sulfur
>>>>>> diesel fuel as it is designed to meet the 2010 EPA standards for
>>>>>> pollutants.
>>>>>> I also understand that most states now only sell the ultra low
>>>>>> sulfur diesel
>>>>>> fuel and that it takes a bit more refining to make...hence the
>>>>>> higher price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charlie Hehl
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the fuel that's been available in Europe for 10 years or
>>>>> more, and
>>>>> why we in North America are only now getting the better diesel
>>>>> engined
>>>>> European cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> About 2000 I asked a VW dealer here why we didn't get the more
>>>>> interesting
>>>>> diesel cars, and he said that:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. No one wanted diesels and he wouldn't be able to sell them
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. They (the oil companies) couldn't make that kind of fuel here
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. The hybrids have a lot better fuel consumption numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All of these are only partially true, because
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. No salesmen could sell them because they didn't have any to sell
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. The oil companies had other priorities
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Hybrids and diesel powered cars excel at different types of
>>>>> driving,
>>>>> but hybrids tend to be more expensive up front, and rarely repay
>>>>> the
>>>>> increased capital cost.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So bring on the better diesel cars!
>>>>>
>>>>> VW still doesn't get it; they will now offer one car, the Jetta,
>>>>> with a
>>>>> diesel engine that gives the worst consumption/performance
>>>>> combination of
>>>>> those they offer in Europe. Go figure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> * Henning J. Wulff
>>>>> /|\ Wulff Photography & Design
>>>>> /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com
>>>>> |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>> information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Sonny
>>> http://www.sonc.com
>>> Natchitoches, Louisiana
>>> USA
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>> --
>> * Henning J. Wulff
>> /|\ Wulff Photography & Design
>> /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com
>> |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
></x-flowed>
--
* Henning J. Wulff
/|\ Wulff Photography & Design
/###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com
|[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com