Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/10/28
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hi Henning, I just like the way the e-CVT transmission works, the cleverest thing on a production car IMO. There was no economical sense for me owning the Prius, and it is a poor long distance car - at steady speed there is no benefit from the regeneration technology and then you simply have a car with a 1,5l Atkinson cycle engine designed for high load efficiency rather than power. Pretty boring for long trips.... Frank On 28 Oct, 2008, at 05:37, Henning Wulff wrote: > I've read many of the comparisons, and not only from hybrid oriented > sites. > > As I mentioned, the fuel economy achieved depends a lot on where and > how you drive. Whether or not you get a payback depends on how many > miles you drive per year, and how close the Prius comes to being the > type of car you want/need/enjoy. I'm very familiar with the Prius, > as I get to drive one at various times every year. I mention the > Prius as it's the only one that is truly in the running, as the > other hybrids are definitely not economically sound buys unless you > _really_ drive a lot of miles. > > I'm also quite familiar with the use of Priuses as taxis here in > Vancouver, where there are quite a few including the one mentioned > in the article below. > > The upcharge of $4500 may apply, depending on what type of car you > compare it to. It's rather lower than my calculations, but even at > that a good diesel car would still be a lot better buy under almost > all circumstances. The $4500 is more than most owners will get paid > back over the term of their ownership, based on average mileage per > year, fuel costs and average length of ownership. > > The total life cycle carbon footprint is not in favour of the > hybrid, either compared a good diesel. On the other hand, the Prius > is a far better choice both on a practical level and certainly on an > ecological and 'feel good' level than the choice that most people in > North America make. It's a big step in the right direction. > > > >> According to a Toyota service rep. about $4,500. However: >> Toyota Prius Frequently Asked Questions Click on a question to jump >> to the >> answer >> >> >> >>> What is a hybrid >>> vehicle?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q1 >>> > >>> Do I need to plug the Prius >>> in?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q2 >>> > >>> What Petrol do I use in the >>> Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q3 >>> > >>> What fuel economy can I expect from the >>> Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q4 >>> > >>> How does the Prius perform and handle compared to conventional >>> vehicles?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q5> >>> Is the Prius available in a manual >>> transmission?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q6 >>> > >>> Can the Prius run on electricity when it runs out of >>> petrol?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q7 >>> > >>> How does the Prius compare to conventional cars with respect to >>> safety >> features? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q8> >>> Who can service my Prius and how often does it need to be >>> done?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q9 >>> > >>> Who can do repair work if something were to go wrong with my Prius? >>> <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q10> >>> How long will the Prius >>> last?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q11 >>> > >>> How long does the battery last in the Prius, and how much will it >>> cost to >> replace? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q12> >>> Can I tow with the >>> Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q13 >>> > >>> Do the back seats fold down in the >>> Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q14 >>> > >>> Can the Prius be >>> jump-started?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q15 >>> > >>> How can I be sure the mileage is genuine on the cars you are >>> selling?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q16> >>> Does the price on your cars include a warranty and on-road >>> costs?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q17 >>> > >> >>> Can I trade in my non-hybrid car on a hybrid car at *The Clean >>> Green Car >> Company*? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q24> >> >>> Are English language owner's manuals available for the >>> Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q23 >>> > >>> What are LEVs, ULEVs, SULEVs and >>> AT-PZEVs?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q18 >>> > >>> What is the emissions rating of >>> Prius?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q19 >>> > >>> I don't live in Auckland; can I buy a car from you and if so what >>> is the >> process? <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q20> >>> What's the difference between Toyota's and Honda's Hybrid >>> Systems?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q21 >>> > >>> What is the downside of owning a Hybrid >>> car?<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#Q22 >>> > >> >> >> What is a hybrid vehicle? >> >> A hybrid car combines a petrol-powered engine with an electric >> motor to >> provide improved fuel economy and help lower emissions. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> Do I need to plug the Prius in? >> >> Never. The Prius automatically recharges its batteries using >> regenerative >> braking, or by running the on-board generator. The driver never >> needs to >> worry about recharging the battery. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> What Petrol do I use in the Prius? >> >> The Prius runs better on the cheaper 91 octane unleaded. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> What fuel economy can I expect from the Prius? >> >> You can expect to easily achieve 5ltr/100km (20km/ltr or 56miles/ >> gallon) >> although most of our customers seem to achieve even better results >> than this >> with some achieving as low as 4.4ltr/100km (22.7km/ltr or 64miles/ >> gallon) >> over a great distance. >> >> >> Typically you can expect between 4.7 and 5.2 litre per 100km >> depending on >> how you drive. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top >> > >> ] >> >> >> How does the Prius perform and handle compared to conventional >> vehicles? >> >> The Toyota Prius feels and drives like a normal automatic car with >> the >> exception that when idling and driving at low speeds, the petrol >> engine cuts >> out, in favour of the electric motor. It is also quieter and smoother >> overall than you average car. Although the Toyota Prius Hybrid only >> has a >> 1500cc petrol engine when combined with the power of the electric >> motor it >> feels more like a 2.4 litre car to drive. Basically the Toyota Prius >> performs just the same as an equivalent sized non-hybrid car - it >> achieves >> its fantastic fuel economy with no compromise in performance. [back >> to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> Is Prius available in a manual transmission? >> >> No. The Prius doesn't use any kind of transmission found in a >> conventional >> non-hybrid car. In fact there is no step gear transmission in the >> Prius - it >> only has one gear ratio. Instead, in the Prius, all the torque is >> provided >> by the electric motors. However for the end user it is just the >> same as any >> other automatic car to drive. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> Can Prius run on electricity when it runs out of petrol? >> >> No. Although the Prius can operate in electric-only mode when >> petrol is in >> the tank, it is not designed to run without petrol. Doing so could >> cause >> damage to the hybrid system, so, like any other car, drivers should >> be sure >> to keep petrol in the tank of their Prius at all times. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> How does Prius compare to conventional cars with respect to safety >> features? >> >> The Prius is equipped with many advanced safety features. The Prius >> helps >> avoid accidents altogether with a standard Anti-lock Brake System >> (ABS). In >> an accident, its strong mono-form shape, front & rear crumple >> zones, side >> intrusion bars and driver & front passenger multi-stage airbags >> help shield >> its occupants from harm. The battery pack is sealed and has built-in >> security measures that completely isolate it from the rest of the >> car to >> prevent any chance of shock in the case of an accident. The Toyota >> Prius >> Generation II (2000 - 2003) has an NCAP (New Car Assessment >> Program) rating >> of 4 stars. This is the highest rating given to a car of its design >> year. >> The Toyota Prius Generation III (2003 onwards) has an NCAP rating >> of 5 >> stars, the highest rating available. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> Who can service my Prius and how often does it need to be done? >> >> Any reputable mechanical workshop can do the standard servicing >> because the >> Prius' service requirements are the same as any non-hybrid car >> meaning >> it only needs an oil and filter change every 15,000km or one year, >> which >> ever comes first. The battery pack doesn't require any service, in >> the same >> way that you don't service the battery in your cell phone and the >> electric >> motor doesn't require any service, in the same way you don't >> service the >> electric motor in your washing machine. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> Who can do repair work if something were to go wrong with my Prius? >> >> In the unlikely event of any problems with your Toyota Prius *The >> Clean >> Green Car Company* can put you in touch with any one of the 120 >> independent >> workshops nation wide or a Toyota franchise service centre that >> have Prius >> diagnostic equipment. >> >> [back to top <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>] >> >> >> How long will the Prius last? >> >> The Toyota Prius is designed to be as durable as any other Toyota, >> which >> considering Toyota's reputation, is a pretty long time. [back to >> top<http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top> >> ] >> >> >> How long does the battery last in the Prius, and how much will it >> cost to >> replace? >> >> The Prius battery is designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle and >> considering that the Prius is designed to be as durable as any >> other Toyota, >> and considering Toyota's reputation, that is a pretty long time. >> Toyota have >> lab data showing the Prius battery can do 290,000km of normal >> driving with >> absolutely no degradation of the battery's performance. To give >> some real >> life examples, there is a Taxi driver from British Columbia, Jatinder >> Parhar, who has done over 410,000km in his Prius Taxi and has had >> to do >> nothing to his Prius other than standard servicing. (*click to read >> more >> here*) <http://www.hybridexperience.ca/ >> Toyota_Prius.htm#hybridtaxi>. Toyota >> has sold over 500,000 Generation II and III Prius worldwide and say >> they >> have never had to supply a battery pack for replacement due to wear >> and >> tear. (*click here to read Toyota Press >> release*).<http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528 >> >Given >> all this, the price of a replacement battery is probably irrelevant, >> however in the extremely unlikely event you needed to replace the >> battery in >> your Prius, current cost, at time of writing (Feb 2008), is NZ >> $4500.00 for a >> Generation II Prius and NZ$3150 for a Generation III Prius. However >> this is >> coming down all the time. When we first looked into this at 3 years >> ago the >> battery packs were priced at $7000 each. We believe the price will >> fall to >> around $2000 within a year or so given the increased production of >> Hybrid >> Vehicles using this type of battery. For piece of mind every Toyota >> Prius >> brought from The Clean Green Car Company is covered by a 2 year, >> unlimited >> km Hybrid Car Warranty that includes cover for the battery pack. >> [back to >> top <http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/faq-prius#top>] >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Stasys Petravicius >> <stasys1@cox.net> wrote: >> >>> Henning- Common sense is a rare commodity these days. We drove >>> Mercedes >>> diesels from 1971 to about 1990. Averaged about 27 mpg no matter >>> how you >>> drove them. In 1971 diesel was $0.27 per gallon- so it was $0.01 >>> per mile >>> for fuel. Now it's a big multiple of that. My most efficient car >>> gets about >>> 18 in town and 25 on the road. No progress in my stable of cars. >>> What is the >>> cost to change the battery pack in a Toyota Prius? Stasys >>> >>> On Oct 27, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Henning Wulff wrote: >>> >>> At 4:21 PM -0400 10/27/08, Charles Hehl wrote: >>>> >>>>> I just purchased a new GMC diesel truck and it requires ultra >>>>> low sulfur >>>>> diesel fuel as it is designed to meet the 2010 EPA standards for >>>>> pollutants. >>>>> I also understand that most states now only sell the ultra low >>>>> sulfur diesel >>>>> fuel and that it takes a bit more refining to make...hence the >>>>> higher price. >>>>> >>>>> Charlie Hehl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That's the fuel that's been available in Europe for 10 years or >>>> more, and >>>> why we in North America are only now getting the better diesel >>>> engined >>>> European cars. >>>> >>>> About 2000 I asked a VW dealer here why we didn't get the more >>>> interesting >>>> diesel cars, and he said that: >>>> >>>> 1. No one wanted diesels and he wouldn't be able to sell them >>>> >>>> 2. They (the oil companies) couldn't make that kind of fuel here >>>> and >>>> >>>> 3. The hybrids have a lot better fuel consumption numbers >>>> >>>> >>>> All of these are only partially true, because >>>> >>>> 1. No salesmen could sell them because they didn't have any to sell >>>> >>>> 2. The oil companies had other priorities >>>> >>>> 3. Hybrids and diesel powered cars excel at different types of >>>> driving, >>>> but hybrids tend to be more expensive up front, and rarely repay >>>> the >>>> increased capital cost. >>>> >>>> >>>> So bring on the better diesel cars! >>>> >>>> VW still doesn't get it; they will now offer one car, the Jetta, >>>> with a >>>> diesel engine that gives the worst consumption/performance >>>> combination of >>>> those they offer in Europe. Go figure. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> * Henning J. Wulff >>>> /|\ Wulff Photography & Design >>>> /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com >>>> |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> >> Sonny >> http://www.sonc.com >> Natchitoches, Louisiana >> USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > -- > * Henning J. Wulff > /|\ Wulff Photography & Design > /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com > |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information