Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/03/11

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Subject: [Leica] Not Buying M8
From: kididdoc at (Steve Barbour)
Date: Tue Mar 11 10:19:07 2008
References: <051001c88332$a37338e0$0200a8c0@robertbxucevjs> <DC4B73A4105FCE4FAE0CEF799BF84B36013F207B@case-email> <>

On Mar 11, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Chris Saganich wrote:

> When I wake up in the morning I think I'd be happy to own an M8 but  
> then I have this problem regarding the proliferation of the digital  
> image.  My problem is simply that the signal to noise ratio  
> regarding digital images is so high I'm generally turned off from  
> even looking at images unless I know their coming from a reliable  
> source.  I figured that an M8 in the hands of the M community would  
> improve this situation but I think many have bought into the "get  
> more for less" mentality which seems nothing more then another  
> scam.  As far as I have seen digital has disproportionately  
> benefited the consumers of the snapshot rather then artists and  
> professionals.  Most bread and butter photographers when I have  
> seriously asked feel like they were forced into the digital world  
> without much benefit to them.  Even at the higher end photographers  
> are getting screwed.  I have friends who have given up standing  
> behind the camera because the image processing fetches a higher  
> professional service fee, so they work the computers all day and get  
> paid more then the photographers.  When clients need more images or  
> different ones from a particular shoot they go to him, he keeps the  
> images and not the photographer.  The photographer has become a  
> technician and the computer operator has become the artist.  My  
> neighbor went so far as to start a business renting image processing  
> equipment to the computer operators for commercial shoots.  All I  
> can say is that the $$$ is very good in the processing but not in  
> actually using a camera.  I see a different future for digital  
> cameras where the term "camera" becomes meaningless, technical, and  
> not artistic. The "camera" as we we have come to know it is no  
> longer intimately tied to image making, rather the evidence suggests  
> computer processing is where the images are created so however you  
> get the image into a computer is fair play.  The camera takes a back  
> seat to the computer in this digital world and I don't believe this  
> market trajectory will suddenly change, (so why should the camera  
> survive?).  The term digital camera doesn't even make sense to me  
> anymore.  The only hope is the continued drive people have for  
> serious creative self-expression and self-exploration through images  
> for which the computer still remains marginal.  I see people doing  
> less of this the more digital they become.

while I agree with what you say Chris...sadly it has a ring of truth...

I consider your wonderful bw images, which in some ways I connect with  
Steve Unsworth's wonderful bw images taken with the M8....

it leads me to the conclusion that you are thinking way too much...

instead of taking photos...

with an M whatever...


> At 10:14 AM 3/11/2008, you wrote:
>> The M8 has a more limited audience than Leicas of the past. That  
>> must be
>> a challenge for Leica.
>> The M8 makes a lot of sense for someone who will photograph a lot  
>> before
>> the warranty expires or before a better alternative comes along. But
>> it's not like a film M that you could justify buying even if you  
>> were a
>> weekend photographer. You knew the film M would require little
>> maintenance and probably hold its value over time. A lot of people
>> bought film Ms and hardly used them. And film M's still have value
>> today.
>> Even my 50-year-old plus film M is still a working camera. With a  
>> Noct
>> attached and my favorite BW film inside, it is still without peer. I
>> can't duplicate the image quality with software (although maybe  
>> someone
>> out there can).
>> Gone, too, it seems is the limited edition market for Leica. I  
>> wonder if
>> we'll ever see a limited edition digital M. That would be good news
>> because it would mean digital was reaching maturity. I used to  
>> scoff at
>> things like Ostrich skin and Titanium shell on the M6, but deep  
>> down I
>> secretly wanted to own one.
>> DaveR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See for more information
> Chris Saganich, MS, Sr. Physicist
> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
> New York Presbyterian Hospital
> Ph. 212.746.6964
> Fax. 212.746.4800
> Office A-0049
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information


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Replies: Reply from chs2018 at (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Reply from lug at (Steve Unsworth) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
In reply to: Message from robertmeier at (Robert Meier) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Message from drodgers at (David Rodgers) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Message from chs2018 at (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)