Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/03/06
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]> Adam > > What I don't understand is the rationalization which is rampant in > what > we consider */civilization/.* I'm too fat, it's mother nature's fault. > Evolution crafted me this way. I'll do better than skinny folk in the > next ice age, which is utter nonsense. I grew up in Arizona and was > reasonably familiar with Native American culture. Some of my Native > American friends came from successful families and did quite well. One > of my best friend growing up was full-blooded Indian, and very > slender. > His mother was pudgy, as was mine. His dad was trim, mine wasn't. Some > Native Americans could be found propped up against a convenience > store > drinking cheap wine. Of course they didn't have a monopoly on this > behavior. I'll have to ask Steve if the "deuce" is still active in > Phoenix. the "deuce" ? Steve > If so it will have whites, blacks and maybe even a few has-been > photographers. > > A subset of humans have managed to cast off their cultural, racial > and > prehistoric baggage to do amazing things. Going to the moon comes > immediately to mind since I live 20 miles from KSC. For every > problem we > encounter, many of which are of our own making, there are experts > (even > psychotherapists?)galore willing to lend a sympathetic ear.At the same > time our Native American brothers and sisters were chasing buffalo we > were doing much the same. The old west is full of survival stories not > limited to those who arrived first. Some years back I illustrated a > story on a group of former Indians who had blended right into the > Mexican culture which they were a part of. Once the government > started > talking about recompense for being displaced several centuries > earlier > the Indians came out of the woodwork. > > I can remember hearing "gland problems" cause my obesity for > decades. A > doctor once told me something like that might effect 1 person in > 10,000. > Still, it plays well on Oprah. As I mentioned before, I'm not going to > make fun of overweight people. Maybe my remark about "fatties" was not > the best choice of words? Nevertheless, we expend our efforts raising > children to be good adults. Once one becomes an adult it should be > their > responsibility to do the right thing. whining and crying gets us > nowhere. I've tried and it doesn't work for me. Maybe others have had > more success and if so I'd like to have the recipe. > > Walt > > > > Adam Bridge wrote: >> And neither of you understand. >> >> Notice what has happened to Native American populations with >> regard to >> obesity. It's a real problem. Evolution crafted humans with bodies >> capable of hunter/gatherer existence. Feast and famine was very real. >> It's very real in many parts of the world. It's not here. >> >> As a result humans, a subset of those humans much more than others, >> have the ability and the desire to both consume and store mass >> quantities of calories. Back in the ice age this was survival: >> protein >> sources were catch as catch can, preservation was difficult to >> impossible, and you ate what you could when you could. Populations >> evolved under those conditions and there is a very real portion >> humanity whose bio-chemical nature is to keep fat at all costs - just >> as there are other portions of humanity who have just the opposite >> tendancies - the expend currently consumed calories first and store >> 2nd. >> >> If we were to have a quick-onset ice age I'll leave it as an exercise >> to the reader about who would survive longer. >> >> Unfortunately the US free market has researched, determined and >> trained many of us to enjoy foods that are high in fats and oils, >> high >> in complex carbohydrates, and low in protein. It's a magic bullet for >> selling food: it taps into a natural human desire for specific types >> of calories (normally difficult to come by) that, because they do not >> contain much protein, don't satisfy over time. Wow - can you sell >> into >> THAT market! >> >> That's what happened to Native American populations when exposed to >> western supermarket type foods - horrendous problems because they >> have >> all the appetites but their behavior has been required to change >> radically - no buffalo hunting allowed, thank you very much. There >> are >> some great programs on Plains Indians that used to be available >> through the University of Nebraska that touch on these health issues. >> >> It's only been in the last 300 years in the West that starvation >> isn't >> a routine problem. Clearly over substantial parts of the world it's >> STILL a problem and inside the US that hasn't changed either although >> the nature of the KIND of starvation has: cheap calories aren't >> necessarily "good for you" calories. >> >> I submit you need to think of food as a kind of drug. Those "fatties" >> that Walt so provocatively and snottily called them are dealing >> with a >> wealth of issues. It's not just a matter of will power. For Walt it's >> probably not an issue but for others the issues are vast and complex. >> >> I'm wondering if both of have connected obesity with anorexia and >> other eating disorders? Would either of you make fun of of people who >> are starving themselves to death? I don't think so. After all THOSE >> people have near-normal physical appearances - even ones validated by >> today's media and culture! They don't get in the way with their >> carts. >> And sure they're tearing their heart muscles apart to get protein but >> they don't LOOK bad. >> >> Psychotherapists have not labeled obesity as an eating disorder -- >> but >> those who I know and talk with see the same issues of control as >> being >> present. >> >> And one other quick aside. In the 10 years between the mid-70s and >> the >> mid-80s US calorie consumption jumped by almost 1,000 calories a >> week. >> Want to guess why? I know I had no idea. The addition of Mexican >> foods >> into the US cultural diet. 1,000 calories a week is 2 pounds gained >> without fiddling with the exercise component. And, of course, we DID >> fiddle with the exercise component: we turned it DOWN. >> >> Steve is right: the energy balance is absolute - find a way to >> exercise off what you take in beyond your subsistence needs are or >> you're gonna gain weight. As I pointed out earlier that becomes more >> difficult as one gets heavier until having your innards surgically >> removed looks like a good option - maybe the only option! >> >> Do people make choices about what they eat? Yep. But remember that >> they are being targeted. And even though Tina hasn't noticed it here, >> obesity is a rapidly rising problem throughout the Asian nations. Not >> at the US scale - yet - but it's happening. >> >> And lastly I want to apologize to Tina, and to the list, for the >> degree of stridency in the previous couple of posts. Reading Tina's >> posts I see that the degree of judgement was not as great as I was >> reading in - although it's still there. Walt, I think, is just being >> provocative but if he's not then he's displaying an ugly bigotry he >> wouldn't consider with other minority groups - even self-selected >> ones. >> >> Adam Bridge >> >> >> On 3/6/07, Tina Manley <images@infoave.net> wrote: >>> At 10:32 AM 3/6/2007, you wrote: >>>> I do believe it is life we are talking about, a life that doesn't >>>> rob the rest of humanity of basic necessities. So many people >>>> in this >>>> unconcerned world never get the chance to eat a decent meal. They >>>> work like dogs and still their children go to bed hungry, or >>>> worse. Tina, I'm sure, can testify to what it does to us when we >>>> see starving children. Couple that with witnessing the disgusting >>>> overindulgence in America and Western Europe? No wonder she points >>>> her camera at those who seemingly have no idea of what real >>> suffering might be. >>>> >>>> Walt >>> >>> Thank you, Walt. You said it much better than I could. >>> >>> Tina >>> >>> Tina Manley, ASMP, NPPA >>> http://www.tinamanley.com >>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/dimes_for_hunger >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information