Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/03/06
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Steve, I read this several times and I don't have a CLUE about what I meant. Nor does my wife and I'm SURE we talked about it together before I wrote it. Sigh...a mind is an ugly thing to waste. Adam On 3/6/07, Steve Barbour <kididdoc@cox.net> wrote: > > Adam > > > > What I don't understand is the rationalization which is rampant in > > what > > we consider */civilization/.* I'm too fat, it's mother nature's fault. > > Evolution crafted me this way. I'll do better than skinny folk in the > > next ice age, which is utter nonsense. I grew up in Arizona and was > > reasonably familiar with Native American culture. Some of my Native > > American friends came from successful families and did quite well. One > > of my best friend growing up was full-blooded Indian, and very > > slender. > > His mother was pudgy, as was mine. His dad was trim, mine wasn't. Some > > Native Americans could be found propped up against a convenience > > store > > drinking cheap wine. Of course they didn't have a monopoly on this > > behavior. I'll have to ask Steve if the "deuce" is still active in > > Phoenix. > > the "deuce" ? Steve > > > If so it will have whites, blacks and maybe even a few has-been > > photographers. > > > > A subset of humans have managed to cast off their cultural, racial > > and > > prehistoric baggage to do amazing things. Going to the moon comes > > immediately to mind since I live 20 miles from KSC. For every > > problem we > > encounter, many of which are of our own making, there are experts > > (even > > psychotherapists?)galore willing to lend a sympathetic ear.At the same > > time our Native American brothers and sisters were chasing buffalo we > > were doing much the same. The old west is full of survival stories not > > limited to those who arrived first. Some years back I illustrated a > > story on a group of former Indians who had blended right into the > > Mexican culture which they were a part of. Once the government > > started > > talking about recompense for being displaced several centuries > > earlier > > the Indians came out of the woodwork. > > > > I can remember hearing "gland problems" cause my obesity for > > decades. A > > doctor once told me something like that might effect 1 person in > > 10,000. > > Still, it plays well on Oprah. As I mentioned before, I'm not going to > > make fun of overweight people. Maybe my remark about "fatties" was not > > the best choice of words? Nevertheless, we expend our efforts raising > > children to be good adults. Once one becomes an adult it should be > > their > > responsibility to do the right thing. whining and crying gets us > > nowhere. I've tried and it doesn't work for me. Maybe others have had > > more success and if so I'd like to have the recipe. > > > > Walt > > > > > > > > Adam Bridge wrote: > >> And neither of you understand. > >> > >> Notice what has happened to Native American populations with > >> regard to > >> obesity. It's a real problem. Evolution crafted humans with bodies > >> capable of hunter/gatherer existence. Feast and famine was very real. > >> It's very real in many parts of the world. It's not here. > >> > >> As a result humans, a subset of those humans much more than others, > >> have the ability and the desire to both consume and store mass > >> quantities of calories. Back in the ice age this was survival: > >> protein > >> sources were catch as catch can, preservation was difficult to > >> impossible, and you ate what you could when you could. Populations > >> evolved under those conditions and there is a very real portion > >> humanity whose bio-chemical nature is to keep fat at all costs - just > >> as there are other portions of humanity who have just the opposite > >> tendancies - the expend currently consumed calories first and store > >> 2nd. > >> > >> If we were to have a quick-onset ice age I'll leave it as an exercise > >> to the reader about who would survive longer. > >> > >> Unfortunately the US free market has researched, determined and > >> trained many of us to enjoy foods that are high in fats and oils, > >> high > >> in complex carbohydrates, and low in protein. It's a magic bullet for > >> selling food: it taps into a natural human desire for specific types > >> of calories (normally difficult to come by) that, because they do not > >> contain much protein, don't satisfy over time. Wow - can you sell > >> into > >> THAT market! > >> > >> That's what happened to Native American populations when exposed to > >> western supermarket type foods - horrendous problems because they > >> have > >> all the appetites but their behavior has been required to change > >> radically - no buffalo hunting allowed, thank you very much. There > >> are > >> some great programs on Plains Indians that used to be available > >> through the University of Nebraska that touch on these health issues. > >> > >> It's only been in the last 300 years in the West that starvation > >> isn't > >> a routine problem. Clearly over substantial parts of the world it's > >> STILL a problem and inside the US that hasn't changed either although > >> the nature of the KIND of starvation has: cheap calories aren't > >> necessarily "good for you" calories. > >> > >> I submit you need to think of food as a kind of drug. Those "fatties" > >> that Walt so provocatively and snottily called them are dealing > >> with a > >> wealth of issues. It's not just a matter of will power. For Walt it's > >> probably not an issue but for others the issues are vast and complex. > >> > >> I'm wondering if both of have connected obesity with anorexia and > >> other eating disorders? Would either of you make fun of of people who > >> are starving themselves to death? I don't think so. After all THOSE > >> people have near-normal physical appearances - even ones validated by > >> today's media and culture! They don't get in the way with their > >> carts. > >> And sure they're tearing their heart muscles apart to get protein but > >> they don't LOOK bad. > >> > >> Psychotherapists have not labeled obesity as an eating disorder -- > >> but > >> those who I know and talk with see the same issues of control as > >> being > >> present. > >> > >> And one other quick aside. In the 10 years between the mid-70s and > >> the > >> mid-80s US calorie consumption jumped by almost 1,000 calories a > >> week. > >> Want to guess why? I know I had no idea. The addition of Mexican > >> foods > >> into the US cultural diet. 1,000 calories a week is 2 pounds gained > >> without fiddling with the exercise component. And, of course, we DID > >> fiddle with the exercise component: we turned it DOWN. > >> > >> Steve is right: the energy balance is absolute - find a way to > >> exercise off what you take in beyond your subsistence needs are or > >> you're gonna gain weight. As I pointed out earlier that becomes more > >> difficult as one gets heavier until having your innards surgically > >> removed looks like a good option - maybe the only option! > >> > >> Do people make choices about what they eat? Yep. But remember that > >> they are being targeted. And even though Tina hasn't noticed it here, > >> obesity is a rapidly rising problem throughout the Asian nations. Not > >> at the US scale - yet - but it's happening. > >> > >> And lastly I want to apologize to Tina, and to the list, for the > >> degree of stridency in the previous couple of posts. Reading Tina's > >> posts I see that the degree of judgement was not as great as I was > >> reading in - although it's still there. Walt, I think, is just being > >> provocative but if he's not then he's displaying an ugly bigotry he > >> wouldn't consider with other minority groups - even self-selected > >> ones. > >> > >> Adam Bridge > >> > >> > >> On 3/6/07, Tina Manley <images@infoave.net> wrote: > >>> At 10:32 AM 3/6/2007, you wrote: > >>>> I do believe it is life we are talking about, a life that doesn't > >>>> rob the rest of humanity of basic necessities. So many people > >>>> in this > >>>> unconcerned world never get the chance to eat a decent meal. They > >>>> work like dogs and still their children go to bed hungry, or > >>>> worse. Tina, I'm sure, can testify to what it does to us when we > >>>> see starving children. Couple that with witnessing the disgusting > >>>> overindulgence in America and Western Europe? No wonder she points > >>>> her camera at those who seemingly have no idea of what real > >>> suffering might be. > >>>> > >>>> Walt > >>> > >>> Thank you, Walt. You said it much better than I could. > >>> > >>> Tina > >>> > >>> Tina Manley, ASMP, NPPA > >>> http://www.tinamanley.com > >>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/dimes_for_hunger > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >