Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/01/02

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Canon, Leica and German goods
From: summarex at hotmail.com (Javier Perez)
Date: Mon Jan 2 02:37:10 2006

Howdy Frank
Yes, the still camera sensors still need a mechanical shutter but AFAIK they 
can be cycled faster than any shutter can and a shutter without a mirror box 
can cycle faster than a shutter with one. Not sure if that's up to digicam 
refresh rates which I assume must be at least 24fps but I'm sure it's close. 
Also, I'm betting that at some point the soft switched ccd technology used 
in digicams will be able to produce photographic quality results. Some of 
the dual purpose cameras are already producing near-good results, 
appatrantly without a mechanical blinder. At least they have follower lcds 
wich I guess means there is no mechanical shutter.
Yes, the lenses need a longer back focus but they still come out more 
compact than the equivalent slr lens because they don't have to accomodate 
the auto aperture.

If the main selling point behind SLRs was that you could focus and compose 
TTL I can imagine it must have taken a lot of effort to force the majority 
of pros to shift away from RF and accept the idea that lugging a huge FTN 
around was somehow better! But that argument just doesn't hold up anymore. I 
have a 1V that can focus on textures I can't even detect through the finder! 
Then, there's the portability factor. You said it yourself. The 1ds is way 
too big. If the results you get from it can be duplicated on something the 
size of a far more easily aimable M, pros will start abandoning the SLRs 
very quiclky after having to tote one around all day for years! Then there's 
the VF. Without having to worry about focus, they can make VF brighter and 
bigger and parallax is a no-brainerThey can even implement zoom VFs if they 
want! Finally, there's the price thing. You can alwayts make a cheaper RF. I 
have seen a few tv glimpses of photographers shooting politicians and celebs 
and I think I'm starting to see more of the better digital RFs and less 
1dses though I haven't looked carefully. Bottom line for those trend setting 
folks is, why carry an assualt rifle when you can carry a sidearm!
See Ya
Javier

>From: Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie@btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
>To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
>Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Canon, Leica and German goods
>Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:15:18 +0000
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>
>I don't agree. The sensors used in digicams are of a different type  to 
>those used in better quality cameras - including the Epson  rangefinder. 
>The continuous scanning types are like the ones used in  video cameras.
>Also, for short depth of focus lenses - ie not the zooms used on most  
>digital SLRs autofocus can be relied on to focus on the wrong thing  IME 
>and need a manual adjust anyway to get, for example eyes rather  than wing 
>tip in focus. I use autofocus when I need A picture rather  than THE 
>picture.
>Secondly if the problem of creating wide angle lenses for digital  sensors 
>is as described then WA lenses for digital will always be  very big with a 
>very long back focus, so there will be no benefit for  a rangefinder layout 
>as the space for a mirror would be no problem in  such designs and if it 
>wasn't in the camera body it would be in a  longer lens mount.
>You are using a similar argument to that used by Leica in the late  50s and 
>60s where they felt that the optical superiority and compact  dimensions of 
>a rangefinder made it a better photographic tool than  an SLR for most 
>purposes. I happen to agree, personally, but the  market certainly did not 
>and SLRs rapidly outsold rangefinders.
>Frank
>
>On 1 Jan, 2006, at 19:34, Javier Perez wrote:
>
>>Yup
>>I think eventually they will.
>>Too bulky and not necessary since AF sensors can now focus better  than 
>>the human eye!
>>But mostly because they can double as digicams.
>>javier
>
>
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In reply to: Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Re: Canon, Leica and German goods)