Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/09/08

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] I really disagree with this policy
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Thu Sep 8 15:23:26 2005
References: <59CE9124-7A7B-4058-AAF9-49F9445B610D@earthlink.net> <22c93b29050905225413f3d127@mail.gmail.com> <rh7sh156g2nv8ia7pmm1qgquml9ubeofm5@4ax.com> <9b678e05090617241a6fe335@mail.gmail.com> <04b33a56b47dac727518b68331271055@paulhardycarter.com> <BDCB7D4B-754E-4DFA-9A09-6174CAF6E0D2@earthlink.net> <004901c5b408$81f71980$1ae76c18@ted> <0DAD2561-751B-41F4-824C-C2B91CF45469@earthlink.net> <002101c5b437$5c8fdc20$1ae76c18@ted> <13e804581f97983d9596eba657e53add@pipeline.com> <000b01c5b48b$7b1fc2a0$1ae76c18@ted> <EEBF9390-9C1C-4FAA-9ABD-28144A386472@cox.net> <4320B7F4.8040405@waltjohnson.com>

On Sep 8, 2005, at 3:15 PM, Walt Johnson wrote:

> Steve:
>
> You mean there are doctors who do surgery just to make payments on  
> their wives' BMW's ? For shame. If I'd have said such someone (most  
> likely Paul) would have called me cynical. :-P


purely hypothetical....

just like papparazi...

Steve
>
> walt
>
> Steve Barbour wrote:
>
>
>> somehow I keep following this thread and thinking of the  
>> difference  between those surgeons who do surgery to save lives,  
>> and those  surgeons who do unnecessary surgery...
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On Sep 8, 2005, at 8:39 AM, Ted Grant wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Neil Schneider offered:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> You have to give the media credit for getting the story and  
>>>>> the  heart
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> wrenching images out. We may not always do it perfectly (and you   
>>> are in
>>> that "we") But we do work at our jobs with compassion also.<<<
>>>
>>> G'day Neil,
>>> Well yes the story is beyond the imagination of most and it  
>>> should  be covered. But the media of today have evolved into a  
>>> howling pack  of "images first and who cares! Get them no matter  
>>> who suffers, but  get them!"
>>>
>>> However, read my lips carefully... "NOT ALL OF THEM" and you are   
>>> included in "not all of them." However when one caught FOX TV  
>>> and  CNN there main focus, as always, is on the grimest material  
>>> they  can find. The stills shooters, if let in enmass would be  
>>> like an  invasion of cockroaches scurrying around looking for  
>>> their visuals  flashing in the faces of those most suffering.
>>>
>>> And yes many newsphotographers do show compassion for subject  
>>> and  use care in photographing suffering souls. But there are  
>>> more and  more of the "worst rat-pack" types evolving partially  
>>> because the  digital era has made it possible for these types to  
>>> become part of  the previously clean honourable profession as a  
>>> newsphotograher.
>>>
>>> When it was "film only" we'd shoot, know how to soup film, make   
>>> prints in the bathroom of a hotel and know how to operate wire   
>>> photo machines. And with that, it eliminated the mental midgets  
>>> of  today who because they have a digital exposing machine of  
>>> some  kind, claim to be "media."   And with many of these people  
>>> it's  more a "thrill of the kill" in getting some sort of  
>>> exposure and  having it published, than anything to do with the  
>>> honour of being a  news photographer with compassion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Gosh Ted, so beautifully laid out with such calm reasoning.  
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> FEMA should have just let you in there with your super
>>>> quiet Leicas, sans flash, for it looks like you might be the  
>>>> only  one to shoot such a sensitive story.<<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately good sir I think you maybe a tad facitious, as  
>>> there  are many far better skilled than I at that kind of subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sounds like you don't give any credit to anyone else for  
>>>> knowing  how to handle a situation like this except experienced   
>>>> photojournalists like yourself.. Shame on you for such an  
>>>> elitist  attitude, <<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now Neil you know better than that, as I've had my ass shot off  
>>> on  more occasions than I'd care to admit, but that's all part of  
>>> being  a news-photographer amidst ones competitors. Goes with  
>>> the  territory. However, in this case a photojournalist with  
>>> experince  would be far better, or lets say should be, than the  
>>> cell phone-p&s  digi camera pack .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> and shame on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> government agencies who try to control what the rest of the  
>>>> world  is entitled to see. Yes I said entitled. A tragedy of  
>>>> this  magnitude, which was most likely caused by government  
>>>> cutbacks,  and is now trying to be hidden from public scrutiny  
>>>> by that same  government, should be exploited to its fullest.<<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Quite right, it shouldn't have been covered up if that was and  
>>> is  the case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why do you suppose there are so many photojournalists from
>>>> around the world there, as you say "like a battery of  
>>>> paparazzi".  Think they're just there for the body  
>>>> pictures........or could it  be that
>>>> there is so many world wide media organizations now that its   
>>>> inevitable when anything major happens.<<<<<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well it's logical they are there in such huge numbers because of   
>>> the magnitude of the disaster. And the advent of the big stock   
>>> agencies now prodcing a great deal of photography to out market  
>>> the  general wire news services.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Do you like controlled, government embedding, with censors   
>>>> approving every image to its sensitivity values.<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well embedding if you like began in seriousness for the Iraqi   
>>> invastion so it could be controlled. And I do not agree with   
>>> governemnt censorship at any time of any subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Do you really believe the US President is forbidding the  
>>>> caskets  of dead soldiers to be photographed to spare the  
>>>> families, or to  spare
>>>> his own image. Everyone remembers Viet Nam and how the press   
>>>> "lost" that war for the US.<<,,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is a subject as a non-American I am not at liberty to  
>>> comment on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> And those poor souls trapped in the Superdome simply because  
>>>> they  didn't have the means to leave the city. Do you really  
>>>> believe that
>>>> they don't want to vent their anger over this, to the first  
>>>> camera  or reporter they see. Sure, there were pictures of  
>>>> unidentified  bodies in the arena.<<<<<,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure they should vent their anger or whatever comment they wish  
>>> to  make as freely as they can. But that has nothing to do with  
>>> still  photgraphers and we're discussing photography and  
>>> photographers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It showed the deplorable condition these people were kept  
>>>> under,  the lack of food, water, medical care. I wonder what  
>>>> would of  happened if
>>>> these images were never shown. How many more bodies would have   
>>>> been piled up. Babies, dead from dehydration in their mothers   
>>>> arms.<<<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You have to give the media credit for getting the story and the   
>>>> heart wrenching images out. We may not always do it perfectly  
>>>> (and  you are in that "we") But we do work at our jobs with  
>>>> compassion  also.<<<<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> We media people generally manage to circumvent " governement   
>>> control " if you like some way or other, not always as fast as  
>>> we'd  like. But what many government bureaucrats never learn  
>>> is... "the  tougher they try to control the media, the tougher we  
>>> become at  getting the story. If for no other reason than doing  
>>> an end run  around them to see what they're hiding or didn't do  
>>> correctly."
>>>
>>> But in some cases control is necessary. The coverage in the   
>>> Superedome could have been done so simply with care and  
>>> compassion  on a "pool" basis. Simply using the most experinced  
>>> photographer or  two and TV crew to shoot inside. Then whatever  
>>> is shot belongs to all.
>>>
>>> However, that may not work in your country as the media would  
>>> end  up fighting amongst themselves with court orders etc to  
>>> decide whom  was selected to shoot. Then by the time the company  
>>> lawyers and  court got finished, NO would've been re-built! Still  
>>> no pictures!
>>>
>>> ted
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from wooderson at gmail.com (Matt Powell) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from ericm at pobox.com (Eric) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from paul at paulhardycarter.com (Paul) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from neilsimages at pipeline.com (Neil Schneider) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)
Message from walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson) ([Leica] I really disagree with this policy)