Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/08/27
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Mark, I've read this a couple of times and its meaning eludes me. In your first message you say the thread is an insult to Leica's camera body. Actually it's a negative assessment of the the DMR. And Leica came off lucky because they only used the 20D and not the 1Ds II, a generation later and more of a price match to the R8/DMR combination. Will enough people who actually use film, still buy Leica cameras? I don't think it's an issue of insults or of good and bad or good and evil. It's that Leica, which could compete in the world using expert application of generations-old technology (that's FILM generations not DIGITAL generations), can't do it anymore. Suddenly instead of just worrying about optics they have to worry about, essentially, developing their own film at the same time. And they don't appear to be able to do that. I'm still convinced that using existing Leicas and shooting film and processing it and printing it yourself will be a highly desirable skill - in the future when it's seen as much as being an artisan as being a photographer. It's desperate times for Leica. But I'm STILL in the market for a digital M IF they can leap two generations from the DMR so they only a couple of generations behind the current state of the art. IF. Adam On 8/27/05, Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com> wrote: > On 8/26/05 9:49 PM, "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan.wajsman@planet.nl> typed: > > > Mark, > > > > I am not insulting Leica or any person on the list or off. The thread is > > by a group of people who are largely sympathetic to Leica and who are > > trying to figure out how Leica can expand its business based on what is > > undoubtedly its core competence--making world-class lenses. > > > > The reality of the market is that the majority of photographers are > > shifting or have shifted to digital capture. Among them are some > > ex-Leica users who got tired of waiting for the DMR or who (like me) > > decided that the DMR is not the right solution for them and therefore > > went with another body. Let's face it, from a commercial standpoint the > > whole line of Leica SLRs has been one giant failure. You may consider > > this statement an insult, but the market has spoken. It does not make > > sense to speak of insults here. And while you and I and Doug may agree > > that the Leicaflex SL has the best viewfinder that ever graced and SLR > > and the the R8 is a beautiful piece of equipment, the fact is that Leica > > did not make them for charity; they made them to make money--and from > > that point of view, both of these wonderful bodies have been abject > > failures. > > > > I will continue to use Leica lenses but do not see myself buying another > > Leica body--unless the company survives to make a digital M with a > > price/performance ratio that is competitive at the time they release it. > > > > Nathan > > > > Mark Rabiner wrote: > > > >> This tread is just an thinly veiled insult to Leica. This time the Leica > >> CAMERA BODY. > >> I'm sure it's as obvious and likely that Leica make glass for Canon as > >> it is > >> Canon make glass for Nikon. Or Pentax make glass for Minolta. The people > >> involved would all consider it an insult. > >> > >> > >> Mark Rabiner > >> Photography > >> Portland Oregon > >> http://rabinergroup.com/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > My "insult" idea was not really aimed with you in mind Nathan but in the > 60's we'd have been waiting impatiently for Leica to come out with an SLR > which everyone knew was where photography was heading. Anyone shooting with > a rangefinder was a dinosaur. And then in the 80's it we were waiting > impatiently for Leica to come out with AutoFocus and the ones who didn't > want to be dinosaurs traded in their Leica's for that vastly superior gem > of > a system the Contax G. > Now it's digital capture. > The ones who know film is a dinosaur have long ago traded in their boring > film consuming M's and R's for Lexar munching N's and C's. > IF we are listening to the market speaking we'd not be shooting Leica which > has had a solid fraction of 1% going for it for decades upon decades now. > Leica is not a system that market conscious people use. > They use it because they like its design and implementation and the results > they get from these cameras and lenses and accessories. > They are not trend setters or tread followers. > They like the cameras. They like the glass. Maybe both equally. Maybe one a > lot more than the other. > > If we compare the kind of numbers Nikon and Canon sells in than the R bodes > and lenses and M bodies and lenses are a failure. I don't think Leica > thought it was going to outsell then Nikon F5 when it came out with the > Leica R8. > It's that nietzsche market thing again we love and thrive on. > > Leica is not dead. > It goes beyond good and evil. > > Thus Spoke Rabathustra > > > > > Mark Rabiner > Photography > Portland Oregon > http://rabinergroup.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >