Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/09/16

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Subject: [Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll)
From: mark at (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu Sep 16 12:48:59 2004

On 9/16/04 3:42 AM, "F?lix L?pez de Maturana" <>

>> Thanks for your opinion. In fact I've never had flare with the M3, the
> first
>> thing I was surprised with the M6 was the flare. My M3 works well, but it
>> would be better do a restoring of the viewfinder (I think it's dieing) and
>> vulcanite, M6 with meter are more comfortable, and at least I have the
>> framelines of the 35mm.  I can not very well understand a "top-notch 
>> lens",
>> you mind i.e. a Noctilux?, I'm happy with my actual M-lenses: 35/2, 50/2,
>> 50/2,8, 90/2,8 (Ref. 11825), 135/3,4. Actually I use my Super-Angulon R
>> 4/21mm (excellent lens!) with the R to M adapter on my M cameras, but is 
>> to
>> big and maybe I'll buy a second hand Elmarit 21 mm/2,8.
> Luis
> The 28mm f:2 ASPH is one.A true marvel. Of course the Noctilux is another
> one but has a rather limited use. The 90mm f:2 ASPH is another winner and
> the 21mm f:2.8 ASPH is another excellent and unsurpassed lens. Owning a M6
> your money will have a better use on this kind lenses than on a new body 
> who
> does not really add too much to the old one. Just my opinion.
> Regards
> Felix
Felix you'd change your mind on the Noctilux limited use if you saw how
Ted's was apparently glued to his camera which was apparently glued to him
at all times for apparently years. Sans all signs of lens shade to no
apparent ill effect. See this include me to get one and I tried the same
approach to a full success. It was my main lens for over a year. After a
while I found my Summicron still worked. My next lens will be the
collapsible Elmar. Most of the Leica 50s have their specific uses but can
also be used for just about anything. Lets not limit them.

Didier: Comparing a 28 Summicron asp to a tri Elmar is apples and oranges
from all I can tell. They just don't represent the same mind or working set
at all despite a common focal length in there somewhere.

A 21 Voigtl?nder might be a "good" alterative to a 21 Elmarit ASPH but a
good alterative to a 21 Elmarit ASPH would be also a Nikon, Canon or Minolta
or Pentax 21. 
To me Leica M or R shooting is not all about "good" glass.
It's all about "great" glass.
A 21 ELMARIT-M ASPH is a GREAT lens.
Or it's about the distinctive qualities of previous generations of Leica
glass which can be obtained in most cases for less than a grand USD.
They might not have the "resolution" of the many non Leica modern options.
But they have myriad other qualities which are notable and are distinctive
to Leica.

Great optics is a thing the Leica M system has to offer. A cut above what
the Canon Nikon maddening crowds are using.
"Good" optics can be found anywhere.
Its amazing what you can get in the world of 35mm photography for a few
hundred bucks. I don't think anywhere in the consumer world is there such
cut throat competition. Its like the major camera companies are working for
love. For prestige. For things other than money.
To me standard of the industry "good" gear is not what I got into Leica for.
My approach to Leica is for every Leica lens I got I saved a year to get.
Nikon glass I get more or less on a whim basis.

My first camera which I still have from the mid sixties was and is a
Voigtl?nder. Voigtl?nder gear is great gear. Cosina gear is great gear too
but which unfortunately complicates the issue by using the Voigtl?nder name.
Here on the LUG you'll find most people referring to "modern" Voigtl?nder
gear as CS gear. Cosina Voigtl?nder. Cosina having bought the right to use
the Voigtl?nder name and many of the various Voigtl?nder trademarks.
"Nokton" and so forth.
Buying a "Nokton" lens from key reputable used camera stores they are very
careful to state if what is being sold is a vintage "real" Nokton or a
"modern" Nokton which is how they refer to what most of us on the LUG have
come refer to a "CS" system piece of gear.

Voigtl?nder has a look and feel... "Aura" all it's own.
If you were "into" Voigtl?nder and had been for a while and you were
presented with CS gear for the first time what you would see you would not
relate to very well. You might find the use of your familiar trademarks and
type faces disconcerting.
And the "Voigtl?nder Germany" on the box with the "made in Japan" on the
gear itself.
I'll be acquiring some Cosina stuff eventually. A 12mm and a Bessa L?
Unfortunately the Cosina website itself has taken a disconcerting turn.
Click on "history" and amazingly there is on mention of Cosina acquiring the
trademark and making the stuff. And there is no mention of the Cosina name
that I could find anywhere on the site. That stuff used to be there.

The new Bessa R's and T's which are so popular on the LUG are referred to as
"Classic-Collection Bodies"
I don't know. "Retro" ness is not their main attribute.
To me it's their functionality.

By the way the non-ASPH A 21 ELMARIT-M is one of the most critized lenses
Leica has ever come out with. A well known dog. People in it's day would use
an SA (Super Angulon 3.4 instead it was or is retrofocal and incredibly
compact. You just don't use the meter in your camera which is no big deal.
On the other had pictures taken WITH the NON-ASPH do come out.
And you can recognize the people in them.
And you get to use your TTL meter. Big deal.
And by the way they are real big and heavy and they are not giving them away
for nothing.

Mark Rabiner
Portland Oregon

Replies: Reply from rangefinder at (Didier Ludwig) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))
Reply from feli at (Feli di Giorgio) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))
Reply from hellman at (Jesse Hellman) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))
Reply from luisripoll at (Luis Ripoll) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue)
In reply to: Message from fmaturana at (Félix López de Maturana) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))