Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/09/16

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Subject: [Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll)
From: rangefinder at (Didier Ludwig)
Date: Thu Sep 16 13:19:37 2004
References: <000a01c49bd9$df906fd0$b1918252@mendigain> <>


Thanks for posting your detailed opinion. It wasn't me comparing the 28 
cron to the tri-elmar, as I have none of these lenses. But I'm willed to 
fully agree in what you say about 'good' and 'great' glass.

I'm new to Leica, have a M6 since a year, a 50 cron, a 75 summi, and some 
[whisper] Cosina Voigtlander glasses (15, 28, plus the new 35 PII). Of 
course the new CV products are just low-priced, but well made niche 
products for Leica-wannabe's like me. But it was my Bessa L gear who made 
me sell my old SLR stuff and switch to rangefinders and Leica.

To stay, off topic, on CV, I wouldn't recommend the 12mm Heliar, it's too 
bulky and less sharp than the 15mm, which is small and light and fits a 
Bessa L (320g) much better.


>Didier: Comparing a 28 Summicron asp to a tri Elmar is apples and oranges
>from all I can tell. They just don't represent the same mind or working set
>at all despite a common focal length in there somewhere.
>A 21 Voigtl?nder might be a "good" alterative to a 21 Elmarit ASPH but a
>good alterative to a 21 Elmarit ASPH would be also a Nikon, Canon or Minolta
>or Pentax 21.
>To me Leica M or R shooting is not all about "good" glass.
>It's all about "great" glass.
>A 21 ELMARIT-M ASPH is a GREAT lens.
>Or it's about the distinctive qualities of previous generations of Leica
>glass which can be obtained in most cases for less than a grand USD.
>They might not have the "resolution" of the many non Leica modern options.
>But they have myriad other qualities which are notable and are distinctive
>to Leica.
>Great optics is a thing the Leica M system has to offer. A cut above what
>the Canon Nikon maddening crowds are using.
>"Good" optics can be found anywhere.
>Its amazing what you can get in the world of 35mm photography for a few
>hundred bucks. I don't think anywhere in the consumer world is there such
>cut throat competition. Its like the major camera companies are working for
>love. For prestige. For things other than money.
>To me standard of the industry "good" gear is not what I got into Leica for.
>My approach to Leica is for every Leica lens I got I saved a year to get.
>Nikon glass I get more or less on a whim basis.
>My first camera which I still have from the mid sixties was and is a
>Voigtl?nder. Voigtl?nder gear is great gear. Cosina gear is great gear too
>but which unfortunately complicates the issue by using the Voigtl?nder name.
>Here on the LUG you'll find most people referring to "modern" Voigtl?nder
>gear as CS gear. Cosina Voigtl?nder. Cosina having bought the right to use
>the Voigtl?nder name and many of the various Voigtl?nder trademarks.
>"Nokton" and so forth.
>Buying a "Nokton" lens from key reputable used camera stores they are very
>careful to state if what is being sold is a vintage "real" Nokton or a
>"modern" Nokton which is how they refer to what most of us on the LUG have
>come refer to a "CS" system piece of gear.
>Voigtl?nder has a look and feel... "Aura" all it's own.
>If you were "into" Voigtl?nder and had been for a while and you were
>presented with CS gear for the first time what you would see you would not
>relate to very well. You might find the use of your familiar trademarks and
>type faces disconcerting.
>And the "Voigtl?nder Germany" on the box with the "made in Japan" on the
>gear itself.
>I'll be acquiring some Cosina stuff eventually. A 12mm and a Bessa L
>Unfortunately the Cosina website itself has taken a disconcerting turn.
>Click on "history" and amazingly there is on mention of Cosina acquiring the
>trademark and making the stuff. And there is no mention of the Cosina name
>that I could find anywhere on the site. That stuff used to be there.
>The new Bessa R's and T's which are so popular on the LUG are referred to as
>"Classic-Collection Bodies"
>I don't know. "Retro" ness is not their main attribute.
>To me it's their functionality.
>By the way the non-ASPH A 21 ELMARIT-M is one of the most critized lenses
>Leica has ever come out with. A well known dog. People in it's day would use
>an SA (Super Angulon 3.4 instead it was or is retrofocal and incredibly
>compact. You just don't use the meter in your camera which is no big deal.
>On the other had pictures taken WITH the NON-ASPH do come out.
>And you can recognize the people in them.
>And you get to use your TTL meter. Big deal.
>And by the way they are real big and heavy and they are not giving them away
>for nothing.
>Mark Rabiner
>Portland Oregon

Replies: Reply from mark at (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))
In reply to: Message from fmaturana at (Félix López de Maturana) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))
Message from mark at (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Re LEICA MP VIEWFINDER & Other points of vue (Luis Ripoll))