[Leica] No more Zeiss Ikon

[hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson)]

Well now Jim, you just have to convince some other manufacturer of your
market assessment ;-)
The mount has long been available for others to use freely, if any of the
Japanese companies thought they could make money at this.
There are a number of ways to use M lenses (non full frame) on other
digital bodies of course.


Cheers,
Geoff
http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman



On 12 December 2012 08:01, Jim Shulman <jshulman at judgecrater.com> wrote:

> Which is the point: with small-scale, high-tech manufacturing, it doesn't
> take much to make a profit.  For instance, from what I understand Mr. K at
> Cosmia breaks even with one production run of any of his lenses.  It's
> even been done (an M digital camera outside of Solms) with a Cosima body
> via Epson, with their 2x sensor of a decade or more ago.
>
> The technology to make a ff M sensor is now several years old and, from
> recent indications, no longer just proprietary to Kodak.  In computer chip
> technology it's practically a methusulah.  There's little cutting edge
> about it.
>
> Today's markets are now defined by tiny slices of tiny slices,
> particularly for a niche product like a camera. Even in Leica's film
> heyday I doubt their market share was more than 1%, if that--competing
> against legions of box Brownies and similar low-end products.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org] On Behalf 
> Of
> Geoff Hopkinson
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:24 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] No more Zeiss Ikon
>
> Jim the Zeiss Ikon of course is a Cosina product. The M9 sensor (and now
> Max for the M) are unique due to the particular requirements to make M
> lenses work correctly on a 24x36 sensor.
>
> I think it just does not make economic sense for any other manufacturer to
> compete directly in that tiny niche.
> I think that Dr Kaufmann recently quoted that Leica Camera has doubled
> heir market share.... all the way to 0.2% now!
>
> Cheers,
> Geoff
> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>
>
>
> On 12 December 2012 06:55, Jim Shulman <jshulman at judgecrater.com> wrote:
>
> > That's the point, exactly: it's almost 2013.  FF M digital technology
> > is now several years old (otherwise known as several lifetimes in
> > computer chip development).  Why ZI can't use 2009 sensor and
> > processing technology to make a camera at a drastically lower price
> > point than the folks in Solms is beyond me.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org
> > [mailto:lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org] On
> > Behalf Of Geoff Hopkinson
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:50 PM
> > To: Leica Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] No more Zeiss Ikon
> >
> > Frank I think that Jim was wishing for a new digital M at a lower
> > price point.
> > Recheck your quoted dates on that M8 though ;-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Geoff
> > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12 December 2012 06:31, Frank Filippone <red735i at verizon.net> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > A realistic expectation....
> > >
> > > M8, Introduced in Sept 2008 at $4800.  In Sept 2012 is worth less
> > > than $2K ( worse than 50% in 4 years)
> > > M9 Introduced in  Sept 2009 at $7000.  In Sept 2012 is worth $4K.  (
> > > a bit better than 50% in 3 years) M-E Introduced in Sept 2012 at
> $5400.
> > >
> > > Using the algorithm suggested above......
> > >
> > > Worth about 50% in 2 years???????
> > >
> > > I don't think the move financially from Film to Digital was so hard
> > > for
> > me.
> > > I saved on film costs.  Broke even quickly.
> > >
> > > But the second digital camera is a harder rationalization.... I am
> > > already saving the money.
> > >
> > > Why would I buy another?  ( assuming my present digiM is still
> > > working to
> > > spec)
> > >
> > > (actually I bought a new M8 then a used M9, for the bigger
> > > sensor.....so I have passed that rationalization already)
> > >
> > >
> > > Frank Filippone
> > > Red735i at verizon.net
> > >
> > >
> > > In 2 years,a used M-E could be about $3K!
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:56 AM, jshulman at judgecrater.com <
> > > jshulman at judgecrater.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Now the real question--when does it become the full frame 18mp
> > > > digital m camera for $3k?
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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