Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/06/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote: > Jayanand I feel defensive about Leica and the M8 because I am > enthusiastic > about both and frequently see your posts and approach to both as > negative. > I can never understand that on a Leica list. and many were here and leica enthusiasts long before you Geoff... (a fact that appears to have escaped you...) somehow interesting and mildly amusing, Steve > Sorry, I just don't get it. > Shooting and socialising with more than a hundred Leica enthusiasts > over a > couple of days in Germany I saw a lot of keen photographers enjoying > their > equipment. No investment bankers although there was a least one > dentist ;-) > I met a number of Leica staff from division heads and down and they > were > without exception extraordinarily helpful and friendly. Looking at > their > operation, people and facilities up close you can appreciate more > just why > the lenses cost so much, for example. As you know I think they are > worth > it. I want them to be around into the future too. I listened to Stefan > Daniel provide much candid insight about the state of business for > Leica, > some of which I shared here. Leica needs the support of users. > When you are as enthusiastic and committed as I am sometimes the > constant > criticism or armchair CEO advice on the web forums gets frustrating. > > Never mind I'll say no more and we'll continue to continue to have > polar > opposite but amicable views on Leica and Adobe and Nikon and no > doubt much > else besides ;-) > . > 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> > >> Geoff, >> It is not some, but most of the sales have gone to folks who would >> use an >> M8 >> as a fashion accessory. The real users buy most of their Leica kit >> used, >> which is of no use to Leica, the company. The M8 in its early days >> was an >> exception, but recently most of the messages on this list on this >> subject >> are about buying it used, or about alternatives from Panasonic and >> Olympus. >> The fact is that Leica is marketing into a certain segment of >> society which >> is in difficulty now because of the economic crisis, so the S2 >> targeted at >> professionals may be a good idea after all. Much better than >> bringing out a >> R10 which will sell in miniscule numbers. At least the numbers that >> the S2 >> will sell at would bring in much larger margins. Whatever we may >> think, >> volumes do count! The D5000 is far more important than the D3x for >> Nikon >> from a company health and profitability point of view. I also think >> that >> Leica have screwed up big time by not bringing in a less expensive M >> camera, >> maybe with an EVF, and not following Zeiss' example of offering their >> legendary lenses in Nikon/Canon/M42 mounts. If the M is not central >> to >> their >> future, as it seems right now, they might as well maximise the >> revenue from >> their main intellectual property, i.e. the lens designs for the M >> and R >> lines. All in all, Leica seems to be a confused company right now, >> and not >> a >> very well managed one at that. Pity. >> >> I do not know why calling an item a rich man's plaything has such >> negative >> connotations. It certainly does not reflect on the quality of the >> item, or >> the user. I have expensive watches, use only bespoke clothing, etc. >> etc. >> which are all extravagances, and I am unapologetic about it. I >> bought a >> Nikkor 200-400 lens, which for an amateur is an extravagance, too. >> I don't >> drive expensive cars because that is not my scene, and I get no >> pleasure >> from it. Why don't you just enjoy the M8 instead of getting >> defensive >> about it every time? Accept it in your mind that it is your >> indulgence, and >> that is it! >> >> I am debating between the M8 and G1 because, for me, it would be >> very much >> a >> secondary system to my Nikon kit and spending a load of cash into a >> body >> that will not be used very much seems a waste - better buy a D700 >> instead. >> I >> was all prepared to buy a M9 when it came out, with all issues >> sorted out >> (like the necessity of using an IR filter, which in hot, humid, dusty >> climates like ours is a PITA), but now it looks as if it might not >> come for >> quite some time, if at all. Hence the quandary. >> >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Geoff Hopkinson >> <hopsternew at gmail.com >>> wrote: >> >>> Some folks with lots of spare funds might buy Leica because it is >>> stylish >>> or >>> elegant or higher status or whatever. Good for them. It helps >>> Leica which >>> helps other users too. Who knows, some of your investment bankers >>> may >> shoot >>> with their new cameras and get addicted. >>> Keen enthusiasts will find the money or build their outfits as >>> they can >> and >>> choose Leica for the reasons we choose Leica. >>> Point of interest. The Summilux 50 ASPH. outsells the much cheaper >>> and >>> still by all accounts excellent Summarit 50 by 2:1 >>> Why would that be? >>> >>> 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>> >>>> Douglas, >>>> This has been evident for years now. They have been targeting rich >>>> investment bankers and their ilk, not you and me. It became quite >> obvious >>>> with the M8 advertising campaign, which was far more prominent in >>>> the >>>> GQ/Esquire type magazines rather than hardcore photography >>>> magazines. >> It >>>> was >>>> also heavily featured in the "fashion tech" pages (alongside the >>> Ipod,etc) >>>> of those magazines. But if truth be told, the bankers would buy >>>> new, >> and >>> we >>>> would buy second hand... >>>> Cheers >>>> Jayanand >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 3:50 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at gmx.de >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I was looking up things Leica on the Web recently and noticed the >>> number >>>> of >>>>> hits that turn up for Leica on "lifestyle" pages. >>>>> >>>>> It didn't seem to work after their flutter with Hermes, but now >>>>> they >>> seem >>>>> to have got their products prominently "placed", or even >>>>> "positioned" >>> (in >>>>> the words of the world of marketing) >>>>> >>>>> No more mention of precision optics and superb engineering - >>>>> it's all >>>>> turned into up-market hype about the special finish, how they look >> and >>> if >>>>> they have a perfectly matching bag... everything in black, white, >> olive >>>>> green, titanium and silver seems to be the name of the game. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The opening of the new Leica Shop in Moscow's uppest-market >> residential >>>> and >>>>> shopping quarter at the end of May seems to be following the same >>> trend. >>>> I >>>>> wouldn't be surprised to find cameras in gold and royal blue >>>>> with a >>>> double >>>>> eagle or in Faberge enamel soon, packed in a matching Faberge >>>>> easter >>> egg. >>>>> >>>>> Then Ferrari red, Bugatti blue, Mercedes silver and, and, >> and......... >>>>> >>>>> The higher prices are obviously already a unique and exclusive >> selling >>>>> point for people who want to be seen with a Leica as a lifestyle >>>> accessory. >>>>> >>>>> The M8 Safari is almost sold out, the White Edition has gone >>> completely, >>>> a >>>>> D-Lux 4 Titan and a D-Lux 4 Safari are selling well. >>>>> >>>>> This is all very good for Leica, but I think it bodes ill for the >>> former >>>>> target group to which we all most probably belong. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Douglas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>> information >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cheers >>> Geoff >>> 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ >>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -- > Cheers > Geoff > 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information