Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/06/20
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Jayanand I feel defensive about Leica and the M8 because I am enthusiastic about both and frequently see your posts and approach to both as negative. I can never understand that on a Leica list. Sorry, I just don't get it. Shooting and socialising with more than a hundred Leica enthusiasts over a couple of days in Germany I saw a lot of keen photographers enjoying their equipment. No investment bankers although there was a least one dentist ;-) I met a number of Leica staff from division heads and down and they were without exception extraordinarily helpful and friendly. Looking at their operation, people and facilities up close you can appreciate more just why the lenses cost so much, for example. As you know I think they are worth it. I want them to be around into the future too. I listened to Stefan Daniel provide much candid insight about the state of business for Leica, some of which I shared here. Leica needs the support of users. When you are as enthusiastic and committed as I am sometimes the constant criticism or armchair CEO advice on the web forums gets frustrating. Never mind I'll say no more and we'll continue to continue to have polar opposite but amicable views on Leica and Adobe and Nikon and no doubt much else besides ;-) . 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> > Geoff, > It is not some, but most of the sales have gone to folks who would use an > M8 > as a fashion accessory. The real users buy most of their Leica kit used, > which is of no use to Leica, the company. The M8 in its early days was an > exception, but recently most of the messages on this list on this subject > are about buying it used, or about alternatives from Panasonic and Olympus. > The fact is that Leica is marketing into a certain segment of society which > is in difficulty now because of the economic crisis, so the S2 targeted at > professionals may be a good idea after all. Much better than bringing out a > R10 which will sell in miniscule numbers. At least the numbers that the S2 > will sell at would bring in much larger margins. Whatever we may think, > volumes do count! The D5000 is far more important than the D3x for Nikon > from a company health and profitability point of view. I also think that > Leica have screwed up big time by not bringing in a less expensive M > camera, > maybe with an EVF, and not following Zeiss' example of offering their > legendary lenses in Nikon/Canon/M42 mounts. If the M is not central to > their > future, as it seems right now, they might as well maximise the revenue from > their main intellectual property, i.e. the lens designs for the M and R > lines. All in all, Leica seems to be a confused company right now, and not > a > very well managed one at that. Pity. > > I do not know why calling an item a rich man's plaything has such negative > connotations. It certainly does not reflect on the quality of the item, or > the user. I have expensive watches, use only bespoke clothing, etc. etc. > which are all extravagances, and I am unapologetic about it. I bought a > Nikkor 200-400 lens, which for an amateur is an extravagance, too. I don't > drive expensive cars because that is not my scene, and I get no pleasure > from it. Why don't you just enjoy the M8 instead of getting defensive > about it every time? Accept it in your mind that it is your indulgence, and > that is it! > > I am debating between the M8 and G1 because, for me, it would be very much > a > secondary system to my Nikon kit and spending a load of cash into a body > that will not be used very much seems a waste - better buy a D700 instead. > I > was all prepared to buy a M9 when it came out, with all issues sorted out > (like the necessity of using an IR filter, which in hot, humid, dusty > climates like ours is a PITA), but now it looks as if it might not come for > quite some time, if at all. Hence the quandary. > > Cheers > Jayanand > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com > >wrote: > > > Some folks with lots of spare funds might buy Leica because it is stylish > > or > > elegant or higher status or whatever. Good for them. It helps Leica which > > helps other users too. Who knows, some of your investment bankers may > shoot > > with their new cameras and get addicted. > > Keen enthusiasts will find the money or build their outfits as they can > and > > choose Leica for the reasons we choose Leica. > > Point of interest. The Summilux 50 ASPH. outsells the much cheaper and > > still by all accounts excellent Summarit 50 by 2:1 > > Why would that be? > > > > 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> > > > > > Douglas, > > > This has been evident for years now. They have been targeting rich > > > investment bankers and their ilk, not you and me. It became quite > obvious > > > with the M8 advertising campaign, which was far more prominent in the > > > GQ/Esquire type magazines rather than hardcore photography magazines. > It > > > was > > > also heavily featured in the "fashion tech" pages (alongside the > > Ipod,etc) > > > of those magazines. But if truth be told, the bankers would buy new, > and > > we > > > would buy second hand... > > > Cheers > > > Jayanand > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 3:50 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at > > > gmx.de> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I was looking up things Leica on the Web recently and noticed the > > number > > > of > > > > hits that turn up for Leica on "lifestyle" pages. > > > > > > > > It didn't seem to work after their flutter with Hermes, but now they > > seem > > > > to have got their products prominently "placed", or even "positioned" > > (in > > > > the words of the world of marketing) > > > > > > > > No more mention of precision optics and superb engineering - it's all > > > > turned into up-market hype about the special finish, how they look > and > > if > > > > they have a perfectly matching bag... everything in black, white, > olive > > > > green, titanium and silver seems to be the name of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > The opening of the new Leica Shop in Moscow's uppest-market > residential > > > and > > > > shopping quarter at the end of May seems to be following the same > > trend. > > > I > > > > wouldn't be surprised to find cameras in gold and royal blue with a > > > double > > > > eagle or in Faberge enamel soon, packed in a matching Faberge easter > > egg. > > > > > > > > Then Ferrari red, Bugatti blue, Mercedes silver and, and, > and......... > > > > > > > > The higher prices are obviously already a unique and exclusive > selling > > > > point for people who want to be seen with a Leica as a lifestyle > > > accessory. > > > > > > > > The M8 Safari is almost sold out, the White Edition has gone > > completely, > > > a > > > > D-Lux 4 Titan and a D-Lux 4 Safari are selling well. > > > > > > > > This is all very good for Leica, but I think it bodes ill for the > > former > > > > target group to which we all most probably belong. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Douglas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Leica Users Group. > > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Leica Users Group. > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Cheers > > Geoff > > 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ > > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > -- Cheers Geoff 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman