Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/06/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Ouch! I have no idea where that came from or why you think I was somehow interesting and mildly amusing. I was addressing Jayanand. I'm in trouble AGAIN for being enthusiastic about Leica?? I'm out. Bye 2009/6/22 Steve Barbour <kididdoc at cox.net> > > On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:32 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote: > > Jayanand I feel defensive about Leica and the M8 because I am enthusiastic >> about both and frequently see your posts and approach to both as negative. >> I can never understand that on a Leica list. >> > > > and many were here and leica enthusiasts long before you Geoff... > > (a fact that appears to have escaped you...) > > somehow interesting and mildly amusing, > > > Steve > > > > > Sorry, I just don't get it. >> Shooting and socialising with more than a hundred Leica enthusiasts over a >> couple of days in Germany I saw a lot of keen photographers enjoying their >> equipment. No investment bankers although there was a least one dentist >> ;-) >> I met a number of Leica staff from division heads and down and they were >> without exception extraordinarily helpful and friendly. Looking at their >> operation, people and facilities up close you can appreciate more just why >> the lenses cost so much, for example. As you know I think they are worth >> it. I want them to be around into the future too. I listened to Stefan >> Daniel provide much candid insight about the state of business for Leica, >> some of which I shared here. Leica needs the support of users. >> When you are as enthusiastic and committed as I am sometimes the constant >> criticism or armchair CEO advice on the web forums gets frustrating. >> >> Never mind I'll say no more and we'll continue to continue to have polar >> opposite but amicable views on Leica and Adobe and Nikon and no doubt much >> else besides ;-) >> > > > > > > . >> 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >> >> Geoff, >>> It is not some, but most of the sales have gone to folks who would use an >>> M8 >>> as a fashion accessory. The real users buy most of their Leica kit used, >>> which is of no use to Leica, the company. The M8 in its early days was an >>> exception, but recently most of the messages on this list on this subject >>> are about buying it used, or about alternatives from Panasonic and >>> Olympus. >>> The fact is that Leica is marketing into a certain segment of society >>> which >>> is in difficulty now because of the economic crisis, so the S2 targeted >>> at >>> professionals may be a good idea after all. Much better than bringing out >>> a >>> R10 which will sell in miniscule numbers. At least the numbers that the >>> S2 >>> will sell at would bring in much larger margins. Whatever we may think, >>> volumes do count! The D5000 is far more important than the D3x for Nikon >>> from a company health and profitability point of view. I also think that >>> Leica have screwed up big time by not bringing in a less expensive M >>> camera, >>> maybe with an EVF, and not following Zeiss' example of offering their >>> legendary lenses in Nikon/Canon/M42 mounts. If the M is not central to >>> their >>> future, as it seems right now, they might as well maximise the revenue >>> from >>> their main intellectual property, i.e. the lens designs for the M and R >>> lines. All in all, Leica seems to be a confused company right now, and >>> not >>> a >>> very well managed one at that. Pity. >>> >>> I do not know why calling an item a rich man's plaything has such >>> negative >>> connotations. It certainly does not reflect on the quality of the item, >>> or >>> the user. I have expensive watches, use only bespoke clothing, etc. etc. >>> which are all extravagances, and I am unapologetic about it. I bought a >>> Nikkor 200-400 lens, which for an amateur is an extravagance, too. I >>> don't >>> drive expensive cars because that is not my scene, and I get no pleasure >>> from it. Why don't you just enjoy the M8 instead of getting defensive >>> about it every time? Accept it in your mind that it is your indulgence, >>> and >>> that is it! >>> >>> I am debating between the M8 and G1 because, for me, it would be very >>> much >>> a >>> secondary system to my Nikon kit and spending a load of cash into a body >>> that will not be used very much seems a waste - better buy a D700 >>> instead. >>> I >>> was all prepared to buy a M9 when it came out, with all issues sorted out >>> (like the necessity of using an IR filter, which in hot, humid, dusty >>> climates like ours is a PITA), but now it looks as if it might not come >>> for >>> quite some time, if at all. Hence the quandary. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Some folks with lots of spare funds might buy Leica because it is stylish >>>> or >>>> elegant or higher status or whatever. Good for them. It helps Leica >>>> which >>>> helps other users too. Who knows, some of your investment bankers may >>>> >>> shoot >>> >>>> with their new cameras and get addicted. >>>> Keen enthusiasts will find the money or build their outfits as they can >>>> >>> and >>> >>>> choose Leica for the reasons we choose Leica. >>>> Point of interest. The Summilux 50 ASPH. outsells the much cheaper and >>>> still by all accounts excellent Summarit 50 by 2:1 >>>> Why would that be? >>>> >>>> 2009/6/21 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>> >>>> Douglas, >>>>> This has been evident for years now. They have been targeting rich >>>>> investment bankers and their ilk, not you and me. It became quite >>>>> >>>> obvious >>> >>>> with the M8 advertising campaign, which was far more prominent in the >>>>> GQ/Esquire type magazines rather than hardcore photography magazines. >>>>> >>>> It >>> >>>> was >>>>> also heavily featured in the "fashion tech" pages (alongside the >>>>> >>>> Ipod,etc) >>>> >>>>> of those magazines. But if truth be told, the bankers would buy new, >>>>> >>>> and >>> >>>> we >>>> >>>>> would buy second hand... >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Jayanand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 3:50 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at >>>>> gmx.de> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I was looking up things Leica on the Web recently and noticed the >>>>>> >>>>> number >>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> hits that turn up for Leica on "lifestyle" pages. >>>>>> >>>>>> It didn't seem to work after their flutter with Hermes, but now they >>>>>> >>>>> seem >>>> >>>>> to have got their products prominently "placed", or even "positioned" >>>>>> >>>>> (in >>>> >>>>> the words of the world of marketing) >>>>>> >>>>>> No more mention of precision optics and superb engineering - it's all >>>>>> turned into up-market hype about the special finish, how they look >>>>>> >>>>> and >>> >>>> if >>>> >>>>> they have a perfectly matching bag... everything in black, white, >>>>>> >>>>> olive >>> >>>> green, titanium and silver seems to be the name of the game. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The opening of the new Leica Shop in Moscow's uppest-market >>>>>> >>>>> residential >>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>>>> shopping quarter at the end of May seems to be following the same >>>>>> >>>>> trend. >>>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> wouldn't be surprised to find cameras in gold and royal blue with a >>>>>> >>>>> double >>>>> >>>>>> eagle or in Faberge enamel soon, packed in a matching Faberge easter >>>>>> >>>>> egg. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Then Ferrari red, Bugatti blue, Mercedes silver and, and, >>>>>> >>>>> and......... >>> >>>> >>>>>> The higher prices are obviously already a unique and exclusive >>>>>> >>>>> selling >>> >>>> point for people who want to be seen with a Leica as a lifestyle >>>>>> >>>>> accessory. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The M8 Safari is almost sold out, the White Edition has gone >>>>>> >>>>> completely, >>>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>> D-Lux 4 Titan and a D-Lux 4 Safari are selling well. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is all very good for Leica, but I think it bodes ill for the >>>>>> >>>>> former >>>> >>>>> target group to which we all most probably belong. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Douglas >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cheers >>>> Geoff >>>> 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' >>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ >>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cheers >> Geoff >> 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ >> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > -- Cheers Geoff 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends' http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman