Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/10/19

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Subject: [Leica] Leica S R - a few marketing and pricing strategy insights
From: douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp)
Date: Sun Oct 19 15:51:59 2008
References: <7E1467B1-6E30-400E-8254-EC9617ADA7F6@gmail.com> <B20B339D27A40AB00F97C1A7@hindolveston.reid.org> <1FBCA9D3-0174-4C62-8920-87EE11143E39@gmail.com> <F90FCA31319440D3AC13E4EB256ECCAD@dadquad> <D082A5A3-A4B0-4B72-8D0B-07AD65B2079E@cox.net> <48FA66C8.2040606@gmx.de> <E130C972-2C0A-417C-8D92-31631F148888@cox.net> <0EF92BD285F444938363B0141C3AC968@dadquad> <FE317619B84F4B3E9028B9F2713F42FD@robertbxucevjs> <C505FD27-B296-48C2-B9BC-6910E71D7F73@cox.net> <4A04B4DF09B441A8B454139F9587AFAC@dadquad> <DF85D644-7C67-40A9-AA1B-99E08B6B4E2F@cox.net> <79664918-47D6-46F6-8368-59973CD6748E@mac.com> <9278E626-3820-44FC-8D87-D64CE2633F02@cox.net> <98ABFEFB-CBBA-44F8-8AD1-62EBE47DAB59@mac.com> <48FBA67C.1000904@tele2.fr>

Philippe, and everyone else

he did not "announce" either an R10 or an R11 - he just said that the 
names had been registered so that no one else has a chance of putting a 
product on the market with the same name.

His way of saying " We are committed to a long-term future that foresees 
not only an R10, but an R11 too", he is not necessarily saying that the 
difference between them will be similar to that between a Canon 1Ds 
MkIII and a 5D, but I expect this is what it will all boil down to: a 
Pro FF DSLR and a Prosumer DSLR with fewer bells and whistles (Like the 
R5 and the R-E)

Everyone expected an R4, R5, R6, R7 to follow the R3 (the R8 was in 
doubt, the R9 was a surprise), this has been Leica's development policy 
since the R-System started. Just because pre-ACM Leica almost went bust 
in the process doesn't mean that the new found riches from Austria will 
let Leica make the same mistakes again.

The S2 was a courageous decision and lays a hell of a lot of groundwork 
for the Leicas to come - whatever the system or format - they are now 
teamed up with the best sensor and processor providers and have gathered 
their own experience the hard way, without buying in existing 
technology. What's left is to stay ahead of the game and widen their 
customer base with products that convince or persuade new and existing 
customers alike.

Leica is seeking a target group that is made up of existing customers 
and die-hard fans (us) AND a whole new group of customers.

Modern marketing tools - SINUS milieus and Nielsen areas for example - 
in combination with address management and customer profile databases, 
will already have located the potential and prospective customers, where 
they are, their disposable income and their affinities and needs, and 
will have dropped them neatly into categories .

Believe me, the address management people have got you, me and all the 
rest of us on this list tied down somewhere in connection with Leica and 
other brands. Have you ever wondered why certain brands pick on you or 
how very suddenly newsletters from previously unknown photography 
related sites turn up in your mailbox?

Did you register the products you bought? With your address? Your email 
address? Your home, office and mobile phone numbers? Did you answer the 
questions about which other products you own? Other interests and 
hobbies? Marital status? Your approximate income? Whart car you drive? 
How many children? House owner or not?

The questions are all quite harmless and very familiar, aren't they.

So, let's say you bought something from Adobe, Canon, Nikon or whoever. 
That's enough to put you in the photography category - what you bought. 
for what price. and how you paid for it, the address it was delivered to 
too. It all goes into Big Brother's pot and is stirred up and analysed 
by some of the most powerful computers on the market. So the next time 
something new comes up, you are already a member of a specific target 
group - could be cars, could be insurance/investments and, of course, it 
could well be Leica.

Don't be surprised if you suddenly start getting unsolicited direct 
mailings from them - they already know who you are and where. On 
average, 85-90% of the population is registered in marketing databases - 
every time you log into a website, use a search engine, every time you 
book a holiday, every time you use Paypal or your credit card - it all 
adds up to a profile that reveals a lot more than you would ever give 
away in a single conversation. It's frightening, but its a fact.

They are certainly not flying as blind as they used to.

I personally think it's good to know that Doc K is saying he is sticking 
to his guns and not only looking, but also going, ahead with the R 
System. Which, at the end of the day, is more than we ever hoped for or 
expected.

It would be absolutely stupid (perhaps commercial suicide) to put any 
new R camera in a price bracket far above the R9, and I doubt very much 
that this will be the case - because they already know who you are, what 
you earn and how much you are prepared to spend.

The development and technology costs for electronics, sensor, processor 
and all the peripheral bits and bobs have already been covered by the 
S2, now "all" they have to do is put most of it into a smaller body. 
Common components/technologies mean improved cost-effectiveness. And 
they already know what it has to cost on the market.

Cheers
Douglas


Philippe AMARD wrote:
>
>
> Lottermoser George wrote:
>
>> While the next digital R
>> may turn out
>> financially out of reach
>> for many of us;
>> so seem the highest end
>> Hasselblad, Sinar, Canon and Nikon
>> today.
>>
> George, my friend
> sorry for me to say, but these are on the shelves.
> Not the R10, and even less R11 which is plain stupid from them to 
> announce right now.
> For the photographer, an L1 in the hand is well worth an R10 and 11 in 
> the blue print.
> Amiti?s
> Philippe
>
>> The fact that there is so much very good gear
>> available at every price point, sensor size and type, etc.
>> seems to make these cost issues moot.
>
>
>
>> In the end, I'm happy
>> to have and use the Leica gear I have
>> 99 percent of which I bought used
>>
>> I hope that their strategy
>> continues to produce at the highest level of quality
>> optically, mechanically, ergonomically and electronically
>> and that I can continue to find
>> relatively affordable used examples;
>> as needed (or wanted).
>> Even if it means 40 or 50 year old examples
>>
>> as an example of the Leica R strategy
>> that has worked for me
>> right up to this very minute
>> I present my DMR with 135mm Elmar M (Panda like):
>> <http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/imagist/visualize/L1003951.jpg.html>
>> which produces images with a gorgeous visual signature.
>>
>> Fond regards,
>> George
>>
>> george@imagist.com
>> http://www.imagist.com
>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Steve Barbour wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Lottermoser George wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find it difficult to understand,
>>>> given that you have an M8
>>>> current and vintage Leica lenses
>>>> all of which have been
>>>> at the top of their quality and price class,
>>>> how Leica strategy,
>>>> essentially the same as it has always been,
>>>> will have nothing to do with you.
>>>
>>>
>>> it's simply that this is their slr strategy George...(I use  
>>> R's...was waiting for the R digital)
>>>
>>> as it's their ultimate R plan, and includes the realistic  
>>> expectation that it will take a couple more years, and the end  
>>> result will be most likely untouchable financially ...
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>> I can understand that,
>>>> if you've made the decision
>>>> to simply use what you have
>>>> for the rest of your natural life.
>>>> If that is the case
>>>> what conceivable Leica strategy
>>>> would feel inclusive to you?
>>>>
>>>> However, others, who have yet to decide
>>>> to move, seriously, into photography
>>>> (as we all did at some point)
>>>> will choose the highest quality, for their needs
>>>> whatever system that may mean;
>>>> including, possibly, Leica M, R or S systems.
>>>>
>>>> Fond regards,
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> george@imagist.com
>>>> http://www.imagist.com
>>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 19, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Steve Barbour wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But regarding equipment, as stated, I am sad that the strategy  
>>>>> that Leica is following will have nothing to do with me. While it  
>>>>> may work, it is very risky, especially in this tough  
>>>>> international economic climate, and it may well be a rocky road  
>>>>> to disaster for the company.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the S system, and quite possibly the R system too,  
>>>>> will be too rich for me,  perhaps for many of us...
>>>>>
>>>>> so I find it prohibitive, even nonsensical, and the world  
>>>>> financial realities won't help it...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

Replies: Reply from red735i at earthlink.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Leica S R - a few marketing and pricing strategy insights)
In reply to: Message from leowesson at gmail.com (lug) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from reid at mejac.palo-alto.ca.us (Brian Reid) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from leowesson at gmail.com (lug) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] software licensing question)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] was software licensing, now Leica S R strategy)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] was software licensing, now Leica S R strategy)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] was software licensing, now Leica S R strategy)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] Leica S R strategy with Panda DMR)
Message from philippe.amard at tele2.fr (Philippe AMARD) ([Leica] Leica S R strategy with Panda DMR)