Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/04/14

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time
From: jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 22:51:12 +0530
References: <3B37FEB4-3FAC-411F-A550-A20037C3B760@frozenlight.eu> <6613B562-AB26-45C3-B69A-CBE875A17038@acm.org> <A7DB6DB8-0F15-4176-805A-582C7887D5A5@gmail.com> <CAH1UNJ30RecSnAEr7Q4zSYix2ZyJraHzawKNpwr1iwnDHCFv6Q@mail.gmail.com> <B3C4351CC11144D1A8498009ABD8C19A@billHP> <F1D55AC4BBAC419B88ACEEE58791A781@billHP> <F70CFA98-C0EB-475D-B952-363E61FCD3EB@gmail.com>

Jim,
I can write reams about what I found wrong about the American Mutual Fund
Industry and the Wall Street and Main Street Banks most of whom I serviced
for 20 years (and worked for Citibank as head of Merchant Banking for
India). What does that prove? You and Bill can say what you like,
pontificate what you like, feel insulted for no rhyme or reason, but the
fact is that in Asia (why only India?) a liberal arts degree is the last
option for a student. I do not see what you guys are quibbling about - you
know next to nothing about the labour market in India, I am still on the
interview panel for two of India's largest banks, three large mutual funds,
and a host of other financial sector companies. Do you mean to say that you
know more about the labour market conditions here than I do? Calling me
names will not change the conditions here.
Cheers
Jayanand


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Jim Gmail <jplaurel at gmail.com> wrote:

> I used to run a software development group for a European mobile device
> manufacturer. Our apps shipped in hundreds of millions devices all over the
> world and connected to our service. Most of my team was in the US, but we
> also had a team in India. These were all guys from top technical
> universities, no doubt relieved that their talents afforded them the
> opportunity to earn a "useful" degree rather than something in the liberal
> arts. On a personal level, I liked them all very much, but working with
> them was difficult.
>
> Building software is an iterative process and, in the consumer software
> and services space, the final product almost never looks like the original
> spec. The architecture of some projects can be large and complex. Sometimes
> a spec can't be fully implemented due to unforeseen problems, dependencies
> or technical limitations. Often, you just run out of time. During the
> development process, you must adapt to market and technological changes to
> ensure your product is relevant when it ships.
>
> One of the things I quickly learned about our India team was they were
> more concerned about doing what they were told to do well, than doing what
> was right. You could hand them an obviously flawed spec and they would
> quietly spin their wheels and try to implement it. When they ran into a
> snag, they'd just bang their heads against the wall rather than coming back
> and saying "hey, we ran into this problem, it's going to be difficult and
> expensive to solve, so let's look for a better way". By contrast, the US
> team, which was a mix of tech and liberal arts graduates. None one of those
> people, and least of all the liberal arts people, would labor for very long
> on something they felt was stupid or just wrong. That's because they were
> more concerned about doing the "right thing" than doing what they were told
> to the best of their ability. The group program manager, an English major,
> would be the first to bang on my door and tell me that I'm an idiot. I
> appreciate that in anyone who works for me because, like any human being, I
> make mistakes.  While the India team was made up of good, smart and
> talented people, their temperament was such that they'd happily go down a
> rat hole doing something that makes no sense at all as long as that's what
> the director has told them to do.
>
> -Jim
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 14, 2014, at 11:34, "Bill Pearce" <billcpearce at cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > Not to offend, jayanand, but my only experience with India is through
> telephone banks, and those do not put a good face on your country. In the
> US, the people who work for liberal arts degrees are not ones who take
> second best, but are people who are sincerely dedicated to the values of
> learning, and have in some cases carefully considered the employment
> possibilities that will result. I have know many Liberal arts majors, and
> not a one of them chose that because they couldn?t get into a science or
> math program. That is, really, in US conditions, and insulting statement.
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Jayanand Govindaraj
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 3:31 AM
> > To: Leica Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time
> >
> > Bill,
> > Well I am not an Engineering Graduate, though I am a Math/Statistics
> > graduate. I have been hiring people in campus interviews, lateral
> recruits,
> > freshers etc. since 1987, first for Citibank India and then for my own
> > company, all direct recruits into the management cadre. I think I have
> > enough experience to know what I am talking about - in fact in both
> cases,
> > for freshers, we were only worried about above average intelligence - the
> > banking/finance know how could easily be taught in a few months. I have
> > nothing against Liberal Arts majors, only the ones who opt for that
> stream
> > are those, in my experience, under Indian conditions, who could not get
> > admission in professional/commerce/science degree courses. Secondly, a
> lack
> > of math knowledge is a severe handicap in most manufacturing/services
> > management trainee type of jobs. YMMV.
> > Cheers
> > Jayanand
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> You may not know this, and most employers certainly don't, but Liberal
> >> Arts and Fine Arts majors make the best employees. They learn fast, and
> are
> >> not filled with useless ideas about how to get things done, and more
> easily
> >> adapt to change.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gmail
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 10:13 PM
> >> To: Leica Users Group
> >> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time
> >>
> >> I was a liberal arts major (Econ) and have designed products and
> services
> >> that you very likely have used. Back in the 90s when I was at MSFT,
> there
> >> were loads of music majors writing code and even art history majors
> running
> >> product groups. The group program manager for the native apps on the
> >> original iphone was an English major. Many tech startup founders have
> >> liberal arts backgrounds.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Apr 13, 2014, at 22:35, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Jim, But Liberal Arts majors are incapable of designing TVs or
> >>> manufacturing them in the first place! (-: So what is your point?
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Jayanand
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Jim Gmail <jplaurel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> That's what happens when the liberal arts are discarded in favor of
> more
> >>>> "practical" majors.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 20:19, Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nathan,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You may just have been a victim of the fact that most engineers
> cannot
> >>>> write, whether it's in English or Japanese.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's how I achieved fame in my department at Apple. A couple of
> guys
> >>>> "invented" a piece of software that gets independently invented at
> just
> >>>> about every company that writes software. The system controlled
> editing
> >>>> so
> >>>> that two or more people couldn't simultaneously  make changes and
> step on
> >>>> each other's work. So, if one person "checks the software out" for
> >>>> editing,
> >>>> all others can get it on a read-only basis until the first person
> checks
> >>>> it
> >>>> back in.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had to use this simple thing, and the write-up by it's authors was
> so
> >>>> damn unintelligible that I had to figure out how to work it by trial
> and
> >>>> error. After then using it, I just decided, on my own to write a
> manual.
> >>>> My
> >>>> boss was so impressed that I got an imaginative reward: three bottles
> of
> >>>> wine a month for a year.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subsequently, I was picked to edit our release notes, which
> ultimately
> >>>> grew to about 350 pages. I had a great experience editing the
> writings of
> >>>> people, with a few exceptions, couldn't write.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Herbert Kanner
> >>>>> kanner at acm.org
> >>>>> 650-326-8204
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question authority and the authorities will question you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 1:44 AM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I have never owned a Sony camera, and now I know for sure that  I
> never
> >>>>> will.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> We just bought a 65-inch Sony Bravia TV, one of the latest models,
> not
> >>>>> cheap to put it mildly. Great picture, but we have struggling for 2
> days
> >>>> with the simple task (or should be simple) to connect a garden variety
> >>>> laptop to the TV using its wifi interface so that the TV in effect
> acts
> >>>> as
> >>>> a computer monitor, but without the clutter of HDMI cables and all
> that.
> >>>> The menus and instructions for Sony products were apparently
> originally
> >>>> written in Klingon, then translated into Japanese and then to English.
> >>>> And
> >>>> it appears that unless your computer is a Sony Vaio, you have to
> perform
> >>>> various unnatural acts. Everything Sony seems to be proprietary.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the TV is going back to the store (fortunately, we bought
> >>>>> locally), to be replace by a Samsung or LG.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Nathan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
> >>>>>> Alicante, Spain
> >>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> >>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
> >>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> >>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> YNWA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> information
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Gmail) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
In reply to: Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Gmail) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
Message from billcpearce at cox.net (Bill Pearce) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
Message from billcpearce at cox.net (Bill Pearce) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Gmail) ([Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time)