Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/04/14
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Jayanand, My apologies if I offended you in some way. I don't believe I've called called you any names. I'm not quibbling or feeling insulted. I was simply relating previous experience with my India-based software development team. Judging by your reaction, though, my comments must have struck a chord. -Jim Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 14, 2014, at 13:21, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> > wrote: > > Jim, > I can write reams about what I found wrong about the American Mutual Fund > Industry and the Wall Street and Main Street Banks most of whom I serviced > for 20 years (and worked for Citibank as head of Merchant Banking for > India). What does that prove? You and Bill can say what you like, > pontificate what you like, feel insulted for no rhyme or reason, but the > fact is that in Asia (why only India?) a liberal arts degree is the last > option for a student. I do not see what you guys are quibbling about - you > know next to nothing about the labour market in India, I am still on the > interview panel for two of India's largest banks, three large mutual funds, > and a host of other financial sector companies. Do you mean to say that you > know more about the labour market conditions here than I do? Calling me > names will not change the conditions here. > Cheers > Jayanand > > >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Jim Gmail <jplaurel at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I used to run a software development group for a European mobile device >> manufacturer. Our apps shipped in hundreds of millions devices all over >> the >> world and connected to our service. Most of my team was in the US, but we >> also had a team in India. These were all guys from top technical >> universities, no doubt relieved that their talents afforded them the >> opportunity to earn a "useful" degree rather than something in the liberal >> arts. On a personal level, I liked them all very much, but working with >> them was difficult. >> >> Building software is an iterative process and, in the consumer software >> and services space, the final product almost never looks like the original >> spec. The architecture of some projects can be large and complex. >> Sometimes >> a spec can't be fully implemented due to unforeseen problems, dependencies >> or technical limitations. Often, you just run out of time. During the >> development process, you must adapt to market and technological changes to >> ensure your product is relevant when it ships. >> >> One of the things I quickly learned about our India team was they were >> more concerned about doing what they were told to do well, than doing what >> was right. You could hand them an obviously flawed spec and they would >> quietly spin their wheels and try to implement it. When they ran into a >> snag, they'd just bang their heads against the wall rather than coming >> back >> and saying "hey, we ran into this problem, it's going to be difficult and >> expensive to solve, so let's look for a better way". By contrast, the US >> team, which was a mix of tech and liberal arts graduates. None one of >> those >> people, and least of all the liberal arts people, would labor for very >> long >> on something they felt was stupid or just wrong. That's because they were >> more concerned about doing the "right thing" than doing what they were >> told >> to the best of their ability. The group program manager, an English major, >> would be the first to bang on my door and tell me that I'm an idiot. I >> appreciate that in anyone who works for me because, like any human being, >> I >> make mistakes. While the India team was made up of good, smart and >> talented people, their temperament was such that they'd happily go down a >> rat hole doing something that makes no sense at all as long as that's what >> the director has told them to do. >> >> -Jim >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 14, 2014, at 11:34, "Bill Pearce" <billcpearce at cox.net> wrote: >>> >>> Not to offend, jayanand, but my only experience with India is through >> telephone banks, and those do not put a good face on your country. In the >> US, the people who work for liberal arts degrees are not ones who take >> second best, but are people who are sincerely dedicated to the values of >> learning, and have in some cases carefully considered the employment >> possibilities that will result. I have know many Liberal arts majors, and >> not a one of them chose that because they couldn?t get into a science or >> math program. That is, really, in US conditions, and insulting statement. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Jayanand Govindaraj >>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 3:31 AM >>> To: Leica Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time >>> >>> Bill, >>> Well I am not an Engineering Graduate, though I am a Math/Statistics >>> graduate. I have been hiring people in campus interviews, lateral >> recruits, >>> freshers etc. since 1987, first for Citibank India and then for my own >>> company, all direct recruits into the management cadre. I think I have >>> enough experience to know what I am talking about - in fact in both >> cases, >>> for freshers, we were only worried about above average intelligence - the >>> banking/finance know how could easily be taught in a few months. I have >>> nothing against Liberal Arts majors, only the ones who opt for that >> stream >>> are those, in my experience, under Indian conditions, who could not get >>> admission in professional/commerce/science degree courses. Secondly, a >> lack >>> of math knowledge is a severe handicap in most manufacturing/services >>> management trainee type of jobs. YMMV. >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> You may not know this, and most employers certainly don't, but Liberal >>>> Arts and Fine Arts majors make the best employees. They learn fast, and >> are >>>> not filled with useless ideas about how to get things done, and more >> easily >>>> adapt to change. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gmail >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 10:13 PM >>>> To: Leica Users Group >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time >>>> >>>> I was a liberal arts major (Econ) and have designed products and >> services >>>> that you very likely have used. Back in the 90s when I was at MSFT, >> there >>>> were loads of music majors writing code and even art history majors >> running >>>> product groups. The group program manager for the native apps on the >>>> original iphone was an English major. Many tech startup founders have >>>> liberal arts backgrounds. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 22:35, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Jim, But Liberal Arts majors are incapable of designing TVs or >>>>> manufacturing them in the first place! (-: So what is your point? >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Jayanand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Jim Gmail <jplaurel at gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> That's what happens when the liberal arts are discarded in favor of >> more >>>>>> "practical" majors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 20:19, Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You may just have been a victim of the fact that most engineers >> cannot >>>>>> write, whether it's in English or Japanese. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's how I achieved fame in my department at Apple. A couple of >> guys >>>>>> "invented" a piece of software that gets independently invented at >> just >>>>>> about every company that writes software. The system controlled >> editing >>>>>> so >>>>>> that two or more people couldn't simultaneously make changes and >> step on >>>>>> each other's work. So, if one person "checks the software out" for >>>>>> editing, >>>>>> all others can get it on a read-only basis until the first person >> checks >>>>>> it >>>>>> back in. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had to use this simple thing, and the write-up by it's authors was >> so >>>>>> damn unintelligible that I had to figure out how to work it by trial >> and >>>>>> error. After then using it, I just decided, on my own to write a >> manual. >>>>>> My >>>>>> boss was so impressed that I got an imaginative reward: three bottles >> of >>>>>> wine a month for a year. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subsequently, I was picked to edit our release notes, which >> ultimately >>>>>> grew to about 350 pages. I had a great experience editing the >> writings of >>>>>> people, with a few exceptions, couldn't write. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Herbert Kanner >>>>>>> kanner at acm.org >>>>>>> 650-326-8204 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Question authority and the authorities will question you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 1:44 AM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have never owned a Sony camera, and now I know for sure that I >> never >>>>>>> will. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We just bought a 65-inch Sony Bravia TV, one of the latest models, >> not >>>>>>> cheap to put it mildly. Great picture, but we have struggling for 2 >> days >>>>>> with the simple task (or should be simple) to connect a garden variety >>>>>> laptop to the TV using its wifi interface so that the TV in effect >> acts >>>>>> as >>>>>> a computer monitor, but without the clutter of HDMI cables and all >> that. >>>>>> The menus and instructions for Sony products were apparently >> originally >>>>>> written in Klingon, then translated into Japanese and then to English. >>>>>> And >>>>>> it appears that unless your computer is a Sony Vaio, you have to >> perform >>>>>> various unnatural acts. Everything Sony seems to be proprietary. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think the TV is going back to the store (fortunately, we bought >>>>>>> locally), to be replace by a Samsung or LG. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Nathan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> YNWA >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >> information >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information