Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/02/22

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Subject: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
From: rgacpa at gmail.com (Bob Adler)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:22:52 -0800
References: <27260333.1393040158349.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <024c01cf2f90$3bfa4fd0$b3eeef70$@verizon.net> <B84FC739-8534-4734-A630-5ED84FC0303B@gmail.com> <025401cf2f92$c79f24a0$56dd6de0$@verizon.net> <B4A14125-A3B4-458B-8205-99F090EE4A1D@gmail.com> <035901cf2fde$5aa76a00$0ff63e00$@verizon.net> <CAFfkXxsJm4bh5iEsJ8MF+ZWsZe+o=5orHeAJSxVMaEBuGMjHUA@mail.gmail.com> <037f01cf2fe9$0aa69b10$1ff3d130$@verizon.net> <CAFfkXxtHEu=ptJtsv1GMVna254nXtUyD58hcyfcOYrifXDCTfA@mail.gmail.com> <733F79CA-562D-497B-B6E4-DCEEE1E8F89A@gmail.com>

So has the Fuji X system pretty much been out-wowed by the Sony system? 
Primarily because Sony is FF vs APS-C?
Just curious. The X-T1 is coming, which looks like a great camera, but Leica 
users here are trending toward the Sony...
Just wondering which I should buy next: Seems the Sony for my hard to focus 
Noctilux and 75/2...
Keep using the M for WA (35 & 21)
Thanks for any thoughts,
Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 22, 2014, at 9:13 AM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Non native lenses are really easy to focus with the A7r.  There's a color
>> indicator that blooms as areas are in focus.  (you can change the color of
>> the bloom)
> 
> 
> one approach is to shoot in RAW and jpeg fine bw and set the focus peaking 
> color to red....
> 
> so you see in bw and the red "bloom" is incredibly sensitive and easy to 
> see, when you are in focus.
> 
> 
> s
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Frank Filippone <red735i at 
>> verizon.net>wrote:
>> 
>>> Certainly during focusing, there is little computing going on other than
>>> focus and metering... so certainly there is power available to do more
>>> extensive focusing operations....
>>> 
>>> Until someone hacks the FW, I doubt we will know much more.....
>>> 
>>> I was just shocked about focusing at shooting aperture.... he last time I
>>> HAD to do that was in the 60's, when my long 400mm f8 lens did not have
>>> auto
>>> aperture, and shooting sports was nearly impossible with the preset
>>> aperture
>>> rings....  With AF, it is a different animal all together....
>>> But I really wonder to what advantage there is to native lenses when you
>>> have an EVF that takes care of finder brightness, and AF that for native
>>> lenses is done at shooting aperture...  It seems to be the same if you 
>>> were
>>> to use non-native lenses...  With the exception of AF itself.........
>>> 
>>> Frank Filippone
>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sonny
>>> Carter
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:22 AM
>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
>>> 
>>> I was thinking about the event on the FE lenses where they focus at 
>>> working
>>> aperture, and at focus, they open about a half stop during the AF portion
>>> of
>>> the program.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps the camera  compares the different depth of field at each 
>>> aperture
>>> to determine final calibration?  Most of the details needed to calibrate
>>> the
>>> lens might be stored in the lens' chip at manufacture.
>>> 
>>> Judging from what I can see in the viewfinder when I have all the info
>>> turned on, the camera is capable of considerable computing power.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Frank Filippone <red735i at verizon.net
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The camera is open loop.... meaning that there is no comparison upon
>>>> which to base a standard for what is in focus during calibration.  In
>>>> real world terms, your eyes and brain decide what is actually in
>>>> focus.  So the camera, by itself, would not be able to do the
>>>> calibration.  ( why there really is a fine focus adjust feature in
>>>> higher end cameras.. camera AF is adjusted by the user to nail down
>>>> the precise focus location.
>>>> 
>>>> If you used a computer and factory "machines" to do the calibration,
>>>> it would be relatively trivial to imbed the calibration data into the
>>>> lens ROM and have the camera access that info, perform modification to
>>>> the camera to produce "correct" focus .... if the camera is
>>>> calibrated....  which, even in the case of Leica, is not always
>>>> correct....
>>>> 
>>>> In truth, the idea is a good one....  but requires the manufacturer to
>>>> calibrate each lens and embed the error-correcting-calibration, and
>>>> each camera body to a standard....and then to design FW to allow the
>>>> access and use of that data.....  Read all of that as extra cost, and
>>>> you get an idea of why it has not been done yet....
>>>> 
>>>> If you go to the Sigma site, and read about their whoopee doo new
>>>> lenses ( I think they are the ART lenses), you will read about a
>>>> little gadget that allows each AF lens + camera to have its errors
>>>> embedded into the lens for correction upon use.....  The customer gets
>>>> to do the work.....  Cost is pretty mild, work time is a few minutes
>>>> per lens...  It is pretty close to your suggestion....
>>>> 
>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
>>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Sonny Carter
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:58 PM
>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
>>>> 
>>>> So how can you know how it doesn't do it and not know how it does it
>>>> at the same time? ;-)
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> Sonny Carter
>>>> http://www.SonC.com/look
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 11:56 PM, "Frank Filippone"
>>>>> <red735i at verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You would need a reference calibration somewhere...and to be honest,
>>>>> the camera does NOT know what is actually in focus and what is not....
>>>>> it only knows what should be in focus.... it is an open loop system....
>>>>> 
>>>>> Would you like to sit there at every F stop (and FL for a zoom) and
>>>>> calibrate the focus shift for every combination?
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a factory calibration, not a user calibration
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
>>>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf
>>>>> Of Sonny Carter
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 9:49 PM
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
>>>>> 
>>>>> Couldn't the camera calibrate the lens? After all, it is an optical
>>>>> computer; what is one more task added?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sonny Carter
>>>>> http://www.SonC.com/look
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 11:37 PM, "Frank Filippone"
>>>>>>> <red735i at verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That would require calibration of each lens ( maybe they all act
>>>>>> the same????)...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would think of this as a really good idea, but I also thought a
>>>>>> R10 was a really good idea......
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frank Filippone wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you are focusing at working aperture, what advantage is there
>>>>>>> to native lenses?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm not so sure Sony has this thought out......
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For those who are interested in such things, native-mount lenses
>>>>>> will allow shutter-priority and program exposure modes, and AF.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Another way to handle focus shift would be to program the lens to
>>>>>> tell the camera how much shift there is at various apertures.
>>>>>> Given this would be a native-mount lens the camera would know what
>>>>>> aperture the lens will be using.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Doug Herr
>>>>>> Birdman of Sacramento
>>>>>> http://www.wildlightphoto.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>> information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Sonny
>>> http://sonc.com/look/
>>> Natchitoches, Louisiana
>>> 1714
>>> Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
>>> 
>>> USA
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Sonny
>> http://sonc.com/look/
>> Natchitoches, Louisiana
>> 1714
>> Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
>> 
>> USA
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
In reply to: Message from wildlightphoto at earthlink.net (Doug Herr) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)