Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/01/31

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Subject: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
From: mark at (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:00:24 -0500

Its clear that just because a certain shooting style is popular among a
consensus of working PJs / street shooters at a certain time in this case
now would not  mean there's a law says you have to just exactly as they do.
A person could decide they're going to etch out a style with a long lens and
ignore it all have a distinctive and different look that would work well for
HCB used a 50 and it was not different from what everyone else was doing at
the time.  And I bet a lot of them already were using at least 35mm lens
standing right next to him. But Few were so consistent with a very specific
focal length. Darned hard to work with if you ask me
I can wonder if he was shooting more currently if he'd be influenced by all
the other photogs shooting wide and ultrawide and their results.
I would give it another shot if you've not done it in awhile.
I get great shots with my 28 1.4 and I certainly feel enabled with it on my
camera and with a sore wrist too. When I want wider I go to a 14mm 2.8 but
feel free to crop like a son of a gun on half the shots I do with it.

On 1/31/13 4:41 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at> wrote:

> Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree here, it is simply a 
> matter of
> taste (or it is in my case). Pictures of people made with lenses wider than
> 35m look horrible to me, and I am not that keen on 35mm either, 50 being my
> preference.
> I -still- think the only reason press photogs use WA lenses is to get
> everything in after they have pushed in front of everyone else, and the
> results always look poor, but are OK for news value.?
> cheers,
> FD
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at>
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at>
>> Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 8:14
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
>> When they say in effect if your work is weak get closer they're not saying
>> crop more. They're saying? get closer.
>> I think the reason why both press and street photographers have gone wide
>> and close in their work is the rapport they have with their subjects while
>> doing it. To be off shooting them from across the street is in a way 
>> creepy
>> and ineffective. For decades its been a close in kind of deal.
>> Don't recall you mentioning, Frank? working with lens like? an older 
>> version
>> of the just announced Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-35mm F3.5-4.5G ED? which is a
>> full frame version of the 12-24 f4 DX's from a few years ago which I have 
>> a
>> lot of experience with. And a more advanced updated version of the
>> venerable Leica 21mm?35mm f/3.5?f/4.0 Vario-Elmar-R zoom .
>> Vario-Elmar-R
>> The reason a press photog goes with a wide for a hundred years now is so 
>> the
>> other cameras are not in front of him but working in the street more
>> recently its about the? other people are in the way not? so much other
>> photographers.? Street shooters like to be in the center of the action so
>> they can pic who is in the center of their fame. The dynamics are way more
>> lively. Its not the crowd across the street its the guy real big in the
>> frame in the foreground and the other guys are real small and sure off to
>> the side they have watermelons for heads but we're all good with that by
>> now.
>> I thought it was by the way a simple issue at day one period of the 
>> Graflex
>> SLR giving way to the Speed Graphics to avoid getting the backs of other
>> photographers in the very early Part of the last century.
>> But it was also the Speed Graphics giving way to the Crown graphics which
>> were thinner with no focal plane shutter enabling the use of wider glass.
>> And that was in 1947.
>> On 1/31/13 2:34 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at> wrote:
>>> Why do you think that a longer lens is weaker?
>>> IMO the perspective distortion inevitable in WA lenses is poor for people
>>> shots, and even though the hideous technical difficulty of producing a
>>> reasonably sharp WA lens has been largely solved, they are still very
>>> expensive for what you get.
>>> I can understand a press photographer using one when there are 5 billion
>>> other
>>> photographers milling around the same subject, get in front of the others
>>> and
>>> still get everything in, but it is just that - get the news shot, not 
>>> get a
>>> -good- shot. IMHO of course.
>>> If you get close in with a WA lens you are in peoples faces, which is 
>>> rude
>>> (maybe its just my upbringing), and you get ugly shots.
>>> IMO the -only- reason anybody would use WA for people is the press guy
>>> needing
>>> to get the shot in crowded conditions.
>>> FD
>>> On 31 Jan, 2013, at 05:47, Mark Rabiner <mark at> wrote:
>>>> Seriously it looks like you had a 50mm viewfinder in your hot shoe and a
>>>> 24mm lens in your camera and now your fixing it. The cropped versions 
>>>> are
>>>> successful images. They came out even better than I thought.
>>>> You need to stand closer to what your shooting.
>>>> A second option being shoot with a longer lens but I do feel that's way
>>>> weaker.
>>>> On 1/30/13 5:08 PM, "David English" <daveenglish at> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> For you who have viewed this collection before and made constructive
>>>>> comments
>>>>> I went ahead and made the suggested adjustments on many of the photos. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> posted the before and after right next to each other so you can swing 
>>>>> back
>>>>> and
>>>>> forth. 
>>>>>>> #!
>>>>>>> i=
>>>>>>> 2342544201&k=nVw3BZv
>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> David
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See for more information
>>>> -- 
>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>> Photography
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See for more information
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See for more information
>> -- 
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photography
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See for more information
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information

Mark William Rabiner

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