Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/01/31

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Subject: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
From: frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:18:52 +0000 (GMT)
References: <1359625270.51746.YahooMailNeo@web87304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <CD2FB8F8.48D3%mark@rabinergroup.com>

I bought a 28mm lens back in the 80s when everybody was banging on about it 
being the "new35" and so forth. To me it is neither one thing or the other. 
I -do- use wides, but not for people. My 28mm is my least used Leica lens.
FD



>________________________________
> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> 
>Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 11:00
>Subject: Re: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
> 
>Its clear that just because a certain shooting style is popular among a
>consensus of working PJs / street shooters at a certain time in this case
>now would not? mean there's a law says you have to just exactly as they do.
>A person could decide they're going to etch out a style with a long lens and
>ignore it all have a distinctive and different look that would work well for
>them.
>HCB used a 50 and it was not different from what everyone else was doing at
>the time.? And I bet a lot of them already were using at least 35mm lens
>standing right next to him. But Few were so consistent with a very specific
>focal length. Darned hard to work with if you ask me
>I can wonder if he was shooting more currently if he'd be influenced by all
>the other photogs shooting wide and ultrawide and their results.
>I would give it another shot if you've not done it in awhile.
>I get great shots with my 28 1.4 and I certainly feel enabled with it on my
>camera and with a sore wrist too. When I want wider I go to a 14mm 2.8 but
>feel free to crop like a son of a gun on half the shots I do with it.
>
>
>
>On 1/31/13 4:41 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree here, it is simply a 
>> matter of
>> taste (or it is in my case). Pictures of people made with lenses wider 
>> than
>> 35m look horrible to me, and I am not that keen on 35mm either, 50 being 
>> my
>> preference.
>> I -still- think the only reason press photogs use WA lenses is to get
>> everything in after they have pushed in front of everyone else, and the
>> results always look poor, but are OK for news value.?
>> cheers,
>> FD
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 8:14
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
>>> 
>>> When they say in effect if your work is weak get closer they're not 
>>> saying
>>> crop more. They're saying? get closer.
>>> I think the reason why both press and street photographers have gone wide
>>> and close in their work is the rapport they have with their subjects 
>>> while
>>> doing it. To be off shooting them from across the street is in a way 
>>> creepy
>>> and ineffective. For decades its been a close in kind of deal.
>>> 
>>> Don't recall you mentioning, Frank? working with lens like? an older 
>>> version
>>> of the just announced Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-35mm F3.5-4.5G ED? which is a
>>> full frame version of the 12-24 f4 DX's from a few years ago which I 
>>> have a
>>> lot of experience with. And a more advanced updated version of the
>>> venerable Leica 21mm?35mm f/3.5?f/4.0 Vario-Elmar-R zoom .
>>> http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/21mm?35mm_f/3.5?f/4.0_
>>> Vario-Elmar-R
>>> 
>>> The reason a press photog goes with a wide for a hundred years now is so 
>>> the
>>> other cameras are not in front of him but working in the street more
>>> recently its about the? other people are in the way not? so much other
>>> photographers.? Street shooters like to be in the center of the action so
>>> they can pic who is in the center of their fame. The dynamics are way 
>>> more
>>> lively. Its not the crowd across the street its the guy real big in the
>>> frame in the foreground and the other guys are real small and sure off to
>>> the side they have watermelons for heads but we're all good with that by
>>> now.
>>> 
>>> I thought it was by the way a simple issue at day one period of the 
>>> Graflex
>>> SLR giving way to the Speed Graphics to avoid getting the backs of other
>>> photographers in the very early Part of the last century.
>>> But it was also the Speed Graphics giving way to the Crown graphics which
>>> were thinner with no focal plane shutter enabling the use of wider glass.
>>> And that was in 1947.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/31/13 2:34 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Why do you think that a longer lens is weaker?
>>>> IMO the perspective distortion inevitable in WA lenses is poor for 
>>>> people
>>>> shots, and even though the hideous technical difficulty of producing a
>>>> reasonably sharp WA lens has been largely solved, they are still very
>>>> expensive for what you get.
>>>> I can understand a press photographer using one when there are 5 billion
>>>> other
>>>> photographers milling around the same subject, get in front of the 
>>>> others
>>>> and
>>>> still get everything in, but it is just that - get the news shot, not 
>>>> get a
>>>> -good- shot. IMHO of course.
>>>> 
>>>> If you get close in with a WA lens you are in peoples faces, which is 
>>>> rude
>>>> (maybe its just my upbringing), and you get ugly shots.
>>>> 
>>>> IMO the -only- reason anybody would use WA for people is the press guy
>>>> needing
>>>> to get the shot in crowded conditions.
>>>> FD
>>>> 
>>>> On 31 Jan, 2013, at 05:47, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Seriously it looks like you had a 50mm viewfinder in your hot shoe and 
>>>>> a
>>>>> 24mm lens in your camera and now your fixing it. The cropped versions 
>>>>> are
>>>>> successful images. They came out even better than I thought.
>>>>> You need to stand closer to what your shooting.
>>>>> A second option being shoot with a longer lens but I do feel that's way
>>>>> weaker.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/30/13 5:08 PM, "David English" <daveenglish at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> For you who have viewed this collection before and made constructive
>>>>>> comments
>>>>>> I went ahead and made the suggested adjustments on many of the 
>>>>>> photos. I
>>>>>> posted the before and after right next to each other so you can swing 
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> forth. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.davidenglishphotos.com/Travel/Shanghai-Market/27782250_3tTZjC
>>>>>>>> #!
>>>>>>>> i=
>>>>>>>> 2342544201&k=nVw3BZv
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>> Photography
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photography
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Mark William Rabiner
>Photography
>http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>


In reply to: Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)