Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/05/04

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Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29Original)
From: jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols)
Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 18:11:49 -0500
References: <C9E71828.E353%mark@rabinergroup.com><AFDC38A1-BCC8-4E75-A9D2-BC2443883F0B@usjet.net> <BANLkTinrmEFRzyXgog4dUmiVEm+iQyj8yw@mail.gmail.com>

The Brownie Flash 620, which I used for 2 years before I bought a used Leica 
IIIa, also used 620, as the name would indicate.  This seemed to be popular 
in the early 1950s.

Jim Nichols
Tullahoma, TN USA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sonny Carter" <sonc.hegr at gmail.com>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of 
'29Original)


> Brownie Hawkeye, French and American Versions used 620.
>
>
> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Robert Meier <robertmeier at usjet.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> RABS BEGINS!
>>
>>
>> On May 4, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>
>>  I love Brownie film.
>>> And that is my understanding of what medium format film is called in
>>> Japan.
>>> So if I was listening to Japanese photographers talk to each other that
>>> would be the word I'd be able to pick out.
>>> What I'd like to know is is 120 film and 6x6 the first such film made? 
>>> As
>>> in
>>> with the paper backing and spool configuration.
>>>
>>> The irony on the "Brownie" term is that many people here think of medium
>>> format film as Hasselblad film. What goes in a  Hasselblad.  Which is 
>>> the
>>> exact other end of the spectrum as people think of such cameras as the
>>> epitome of high end ness. While a brownie being the epitome of low end
>>> ness.
>>> So there is some irony there. Perhaps intended.
>>>
>>> My very first camera as a kid was a Brownie Starlet which used film on a
>>> spool with a paper backing but as it turned out was a scaled down 
>>> version
>>> of
>>> 120 6x6 film.  It was 127 film and was 4x4 cm's!
>>> It took me awhile to figure out looking back that I started out shooting
>>> squares. As I think the shooting of squares has been a very big deal in 
>>> my
>>> photo history much of my best work. And I took to it like a duck to 
>>> water
>>> with my first Rolleiflex in 1975 right out of school.
>>>  I'd like to be shooting some squares today!
>>> The Starlet was made both in Rochester and in Paris France.
>>>
>>> I took this picture with it from the top of the Empire State Building in
>>> the
>>> rain when I was nine in 1960, my first roll of film ever. Roll #1.
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/New+York+Cityx.jpg.html
>>>
>>> But my first camera  in around 1958 when I was 10-12 yrs old: (1960-2) 
>>> was
>>> a
>>> Brownie Starlet which shot a mini 120 film called 127.
>>> http://www.ken.lyndrup.dk/Engelsk/Kodak/Brownie%20Stralet%20Camera%20E.htm
>>> http://www.geh.org/fm/brownie/htmlsrc/mE13000055_ful.html#topofimage
>>> http://www.vieilalbum.com/BrownieStarletFR.htm
>>> Manufactured : 1957-62 Lens : Dakon Shutter : Rotary
>>> IMAGE SIZE: 1-5/8 x 1-5/8in.
>>> (4.1275 inches according to the internet)
>>> ((.1275 inch = 3.2385 millimeters))
>>> ORIGINAL LIST PRICE: $5.95
>>> Film Size : 127
>>> Negative Size : 4x4 cm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  From: Slobodan Dimitrov <s.dimitrov at charter.net>
>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 06:33:48 -0700
>>>> To: <rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com>, <rollei_list at freelists.org>
>>>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of 
>>>> '29
>>>> Original)
>>>>
>>>> I just found out that next year, 2012, 120 film will be 100 years old.
>>>> Anyone
>>>> willing to do a celebratory project to commemorate the milestone?
>>>> S.d.
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>  From: Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza at yahoo.com.ar>
>>>>> Date: May 4, 2011 1:53:25 AM PDT
>>>>> To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>>> Reply-To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirk:
>>>>> 120 film was available from 1912 and the Rolleiflex was designed in
>>>>> 1928, it
>>>>> could be made to use 120 film but Heidecke wanted to keep the camera 
>>>>> as
>>>>> compact and small as posssible and then he chose the 117 film (B1-6).
>>>>> The
>>>>> Rolleiflex was a market successs and hardly the firsts users got it 
>>>>> they
>>>>> asked the factory about to adapt it to use longer film; F&H found a 
>>>>> way
>>>>> to
>>>>> retrofit the camera for 620 film spools use with 12 frames.
>>>>>
>>>>> According the explanation in Claus Prochnow's Report 1, the 620 spools
>>>>> larger
>>>>> flanges made contact with the upper spool chamber and then it had to 
>>>>> be
>>>>> enlarged accordingly, the lower spool was housed in a cage and 
>>>>> projected
>>>>> slightly and then the camera back received two spherical cuts. The
>>>>> camera
>>>>> exterior was kept original without changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> The camera could also be adapted for 120 film at factory, but it
>>>>> required
>>>>> major changes with modifications even for the camera exterior (i.e. a
>>>>> additional spool knob and a new wider transport knob with a groove) 
>>>>> and
>>>>> the
>>>>> changes for the camera inside were significant too.
>>>>> While the adaptation for 620 film looks pretty simple for a technician
>>>>> wanting to do the task, the adaptation for 120 film looks more complex
>>>>> requiring special parts, 120 spools had slight variants at the time 
>>>>> and
>>>>> the
>>>>> adaptation needed to consider these variants.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was from January 1932 with the first Rolleiflex Standard model that
>>>>> the
>>>>> Rolleiflex cameras were made to use 120 film from factory. The 117 
>>>>> film
>>>>> was
>>>>> discontinued in 1949, F&H decision to adopt the 120 film size had
>>>>> nothing to
>>>>> do with the 117 film availability, the Rolleiflex users wanted a 
>>>>> longer
>>>>> film.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carlos
>>>>>
>>>>> PS:If you have the 620 spools, it's pretty easy to respool 120 film, 
>>>>> the
>>>>> only
>>>>> difference 120-620 is the spool, film size is the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- El mi? 4-may-11, Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com> 
>>>>> escribi?:
>>>>>
>>>>>  De: Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Asunto: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>>>> Para: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 4 de mayo de 2011, 1:03
>>>>>> Thanks, Richard, for having a go at
>>>>>> it, but unfortunately those aren't solutions (if there are
>>>>>> any).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. No way 120, it's too fat. The early Rolleis used 117
>>>>>> film.  Phillips explains that in 1929 it was the only
>>>>>> size that had the frame numbers printed in the right place
>>>>>> on the backing paper. 117 was 6 cm wide but had a thin
>>>>>> spindle (making a thinner roll), small flanges, and
>>>>>> different holes in the ends of the spools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When 117 was discontinued, many of the original Rolleis
>>>>>> were converted to 620 film (which is still available from
>>>>>> B&H). 620 has a skinny spindle and small flanges like
>>>>>> 117, but it required a modification of the cameras: a
>>>>>> different-sized left bump and right key to engage the
>>>>>> take-up spool. These are the conversion parts I have some
>>>>>> small hope of finding, if anyone knows of an old Rollei
>>>>>> burial site where such things can be found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Years of experience have proved that klutzes like me do
>>>>>> not work on their own cameras. So I still want to know if
>>>>>> there's a classic camera repairman who retains old parts and
>>>>>> skills. (Fleenor and Krikor don't work on these.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kirk
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Sonny
> http://sonc.com/look/
> Natchitoches, Louisiana
>
> USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> 




In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))