Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/05/04

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Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original)
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 16:15:58 -0400

620 being 120 "film" but with a very slightly thinner spool.
Some 620 cameras could actually use 120 film and visa versa.
The format was of course still 6x6 or 6x whatever.
While 127 film was 4x...
I forgot how many on a roll


--------------------
Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
mark at rabinergroup.com
Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb




> From: Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 15:05:38 -0500
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of 
> '29
> Original)
> 
> Brownie Hawkeye, French and American Versions used 620.


On Wed, May 4, 2011
> at 2:21 PM, Robert Meier <robertmeier at usjet.net> wrote:

> RABS BEGINS!
>
>
>
> On May 4, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>
>  I love Brownie film.
>>
> And that is my understanding of what medium format film is called in
>>
> Japan.
>> So if I was listening to Japanese photographers talk to each other
> that
>> would be the word I'd be able to pick out.
>> What I'd like to know is
> is 120 film and 6x6 the first such film made? As
>> in
>> with the paper
> backing and spool configuration.
>>
>> The irony on the "Brownie" term is that
> many people here think of medium
>> format film as Hasselblad film. What goes
> in a  Hasselblad.  Which is the
>> exact other end of the spectrum as people
> think of such cameras as the
>> epitome of high end ness. While a brownie
> being the epitome of low end
>> ness.
>> So there is some irony there. Perhaps
> intended.
>>
>> My very first camera as a kid was a Brownie Starlet which used
> film on a
>> spool with a paper backing but as it turned out was a scaled down
> version
>> of
>> 120 6x6 film.  It was 127 film and was 4x4 cm's!
>> It took
> me awhile to figure out looking back that I started out shooting
>> squares.
> As I think the shooting of squares has been a very big deal in my
>> photo
> history much of my best work. And I took to it like a duck to water
>> with my
> first Rolleiflex in 1975 right out of school.
>>  I'd like to be shooting some
> squares today!
>> The Starlet was made both in Rochester and in Paris
> France.
>>
>> I took this picture with it from the top of the Empire State
> Building in
>> the
>> rain when I was nine in 1960, my first roll of film
> ever. Roll #1.
>>
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/New+York+Cityx.jpg.html
>>
>> But
> my first camera  in around 1958 when I was 10-12 yrs old: (1960-2) was
>> a
>>
> Brownie Starlet which shot a mini 120 film called 127.
>>
> http://www.ken.lyndrup.dk/Engelsk/Kodak/Brownie%20Stralet%20Camera%20E.htm
>>
> http://www.geh.org/fm/brownie/htmlsrc/mE13000055_ful.html#topofimage
>>
> http://www.vieilalbum.com/BrownieStarletFR.htm
>> Manufactured : 1957-62 Lens
> : Dakon Shutter : Rotary
>> IMAGE SIZE: 1-5/8 x 1-5/8in.
>> (4.1275 inches
> according to the internet)
>> ((.1275 inch = 3.2385 millimeters))
>> ORIGINAL
> LIST PRICE: $5.95
>> Film Size : 127
>> Negative Size : 4x4 cm
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --------------------
>> Mark William Rabiner
>>
>>
>>
>>  From: Slobodan
> Dimitrov <s.dimitrov at charter.net>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group
> <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 06:33:48 -0700
>>> To:
> <rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com>, <rollei_list at freelists.org>
>>> Cc: Leica Users
> Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120
> film (Care & feeding of '29
>>> Original)
>>>
>>> I just found out that next
> year, 2012, 120 film will be 100 years old.
>>> Anyone
>>> willing to do a
> celebratory project to commemorate the milestone?
>>> S.d.
>>>
>>> Begin
> forwarded message:
>>>
>>>  From: Carlos Manuel Freaza
> <cmfreaza at yahoo.com.ar>
>>>> Date: May 4, 2011 1:53:25 AM PDT
>>>> To:
> rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding
> of '29 Original
>>>> Reply-To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>>
> Kirk:
>>>> 120 film was available from 1912 and the Rolleiflex was designed
> in
>>>> 1928, it
>>>> could be made to use 120 film but Heidecke wanted to
> keep the camera as
>>>> compact and small as posssible and then he chose the
> 117 film (B1-6).
>>>> The
>>>> Rolleiflex was a market successs and hardly the
> firsts users got it they
>>>> asked the factory about to adapt it to use
> longer film; F&H found a way
>>>> to
>>>> retrofit the camera for 620 film
> spools use with 12 frames.
>>>>
>>>> According the explanation in Claus
> Prochnow's Report 1, the 620 spools
>>>> larger
>>>> flanges made contact with
> the upper spool chamber and then it had to be
>>>> enlarged accordingly, the
> lower spool was housed in a cage and projected
>>>> slightly and then the
> camera back received two spherical cuts. The
>>>> camera
>>>> exterior was
> kept original without changes.
>>>>
>>>> The camera could also be adapted for
> 120 film at factory, but it
>>>> required
>>>> major changes with
> modifications even for the camera exterior (i.e. a
>>>> additional spool knob
> and a new wider transport knob with a groove) and
>>>> the
>>>> changes for
> the camera inside were significant too.
>>>> While the adaptation for 620 film
> looks pretty simple for a technician
>>>> wanting to do the task, the
> adaptation for 120 film looks more complex
>>>> requiring special parts, 120
> spools had slight variants at the time and
>>>> the
>>>> adaptation needed to
> consider these variants.
>>>>
>>>> It was from January 1932 with the first
> Rolleiflex Standard model that
>>>> the
>>>> Rolleiflex cameras were made to
> use 120 film from factory. The 117 film
>>>> was
>>>> discontinued in 1949,
> F&H decision to adopt the 120 film size had
>>>> nothing to
>>>> do with the
> 117 film availability, the Rolleiflex users wanted a longer
>>>>
> film.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos
>>>>
>>>> PS:If you have the 620 spools, it's pretty
> easy to respool 120 film, the
>>>> only
>>>> difference 120-620 is the spool,
> film size is the same.
>>>>
>>>> --- El mi? 4-may-11, Kirk Thompson
> <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com> escribi?:
>>>>
>>>>  De: Kirk Thompson
> <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com>
>>>>> Asunto: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of
> '29 Original
>>>>> Para: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 4
> de mayo de 2011, 1:03
>>>>> Thanks, Richard, for having a go at
>>>>> it, but
> unfortunately those aren't solutions (if there are
>>>>> any).
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.
> No way 120, it's too fat. The early Rolleis used 117
>>>>> film.  Phillips
> explains that in 1929 it was the only
>>>>> size that had the frame numbers
> printed in the right place
>>>>> on the backing paper. 117 was 6 cm wide but
> had a thin
>>>>> spindle (making a thinner roll), small flanges, and
>>>>>
> different holes in the ends of the spools.
>>>>>
>>>>> When 117 was
> discontinued, many of the original Rolleis
>>>>> were converted to 620 film
> (which is still available from
>>>>> B&H). 620 has a skinny spindle and small
> flanges like
>>>>> 117, but it required a modification of the cameras: a
>>>>>
> different-sized left bump and right key to engage the
>>>>> take-up spool.
> These are the conversion parts I have some
>>>>> small hope of finding, if
> anyone knows of an old Rollei
>>>>> burial site where such things can be
> found.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Years of experience have proved that klutzes like me
> do
>>>>> not work on their own cameras. So I still want to know if
>>>>>
> there's a classic camera repairman who retains old parts and
>>>>> skills.
> (Fleenor and Krikor don't work on these.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Regards,

Sonny
http://sonc.com/look/
Natchitoches,
> Louisiana

USA

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In reply to: Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))