Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/05/04

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Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original)
From: robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 14:21:58 -0500 (CDT)
References: <C9E71828.E353%mark@rabinergroup.com>

RABS BEGINS!


On May 4, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:

> I love Brownie film.
> And that is my understanding of what medium format film is called  
> in Japan.
> So if I was listening to Japanese photographers talk to each other  
> that
> would be the word I'd be able to pick out.
> What I'd like to know is is 120 film and 6x6 the first such film  
> made? As in
> with the paper backing and spool configuration.
>
> The irony on the "Brownie" term is that many people here think of  
> medium
> format film as Hasselblad film. What goes in a  Hasselblad.  Which  
> is the
> exact other end of the spectrum as people think of such cameras as the
> epitome of high end ness. While a brownie being the epitome of low  
> end ness.
> So there is some irony there. Perhaps intended.
>
> My very first camera as a kid was a Brownie Starlet which used film  
> on a
> spool with a paper backing but as it turned out was a scaled down  
> version of
> 120 6x6 film.  It was 127 film and was 4x4 cm's!
> It took me awhile to figure out looking back that I started out  
> shooting
> squares. As I think the shooting of squares has been a very big  
> deal in my
> photo history much of my best work. And I took to it like a duck to  
> water
> with my first Rolleiflex in 1975 right out of school.
>  I'd like to be shooting some squares today!
> The Starlet was made both in Rochester and in Paris France.
>
> I took this picture with it from the top of the Empire State  
> Building in the
> rain when I was nine in 1960, my first roll of film ever. Roll #1.
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/New+York+Cityx.jpg.html
>
> But my first camera  in around 1958 when I was 10-12 yrs old:  
> (1960-2) was a
> Brownie Starlet which shot a mini 120 film called 127.
> http://www.ken.lyndrup.dk/Engelsk/Kodak/Brownie%20Stralet%20Camera% 
> 20E.htm
> http://www.geh.org/fm/brownie/htmlsrc/mE13000055_ful.html#topofimage
> http://www.vieilalbum.com/BrownieStarletFR.htm
> Manufactured : 1957-62 Lens : Dakon Shutter : Rotary
> IMAGE SIZE: 1-5/8 x 1-5/8in.
> (4.1275 inches according to the internet)
> ((.1275 inch = 3.2385 millimeters))
> ORIGINAL LIST PRICE: $5.95
> Film Size : 127
> Negative Size : 4x4 cm
>
>
>
> --------------------
> Mark William Rabiner
>
>
>
>> From: Slobodan Dimitrov <s.dimitrov at charter.net>
>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 06:33:48 -0700
>> To: <rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com>, <rollei_list at freelists.org>
>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding  
>> of '29
>> Original)
>>
>> I just found out that next year, 2012, 120 film will be 100 years  
>> old. Anyone
>> willing to do a celebratory project to commemorate the milestone?
>> S.d.
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza at yahoo.com.ar>
>>> Date: May 4, 2011 1:53:25 AM PDT
>>> To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>> Reply-To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> Kirk:
>>> 120 film was available from 1912 and the Rolleiflex was designed  
>>> in 1928, it
>>> could be made to use 120 film but Heidecke wanted to keep the  
>>> camera as
>>> compact and small as posssible and then he chose the 117 film  
>>> (B1-6). The
>>> Rolleiflex was a market successs and hardly the firsts users got  
>>> it they
>>> asked the factory about to adapt it to use longer film; F&H found  
>>> a way to
>>> retrofit the camera for 620 film spools use with 12 frames.
>>>
>>> According the explanation in Claus Prochnow's Report 1, the 620  
>>> spools larger
>>> flanges made contact with the upper spool chamber and then it had  
>>> to be
>>> enlarged accordingly, the lower spool was housed in a cage and  
>>> projected
>>> slightly and then the camera back received two spherical cuts.  
>>> The camera
>>> exterior was kept original without changes.
>>>
>>> The camera could also be adapted for 120 film at factory, but it  
>>> required
>>> major changes with modifications even for the camera exterior  
>>> (i.e. a
>>> additional spool knob and a new wider transport knob with a  
>>> groove) and the
>>> changes for the camera inside were significant too.
>>> While the adaptation for 620 film looks pretty simple for a  
>>> technician
>>> wanting to do the task, the adaptation for 120 film looks more  
>>> complex
>>> requiring special parts, 120 spools had slight variants at the  
>>> time and the
>>> adaptation needed to consider these variants.
>>>
>>> It was from January 1932 with the first Rolleiflex Standard model  
>>> that the
>>> Rolleiflex cameras were made to use 120 film from factory. The  
>>> 117 film was
>>> discontinued in 1949, F&H decision to adopt the 120 film size had  
>>> nothing to
>>> do with the 117 film availability, the Rolleiflex users wanted a  
>>> longer film.
>>>
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>> PS:If you have the 620 spools, it's pretty easy to respool 120  
>>> film, the only
>>> difference 120-620 is the spool, film size is the same.
>>>
>>> --- El mi? 4-may-11, Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com>  
>>> escribi?:
>>>
>>>> De: Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com>
>>>> Asunto: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>> Para: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 4 de mayo de 2011, 1:03
>>>> Thanks, Richard, for having a go at
>>>> it, but unfortunately those aren't solutions (if there are
>>>> any).
>>>>
>>>> 1. No way 120, it's too fat. The early Rolleis used 117
>>>> film.  Phillips explains that in 1929 it was the only
>>>> size that had the frame numbers printed in the right place
>>>> on the backing paper. 117 was 6 cm wide but had a thin
>>>> spindle (making a thinner roll), small flanges, and
>>>> different holes in the ends of the spools.
>>>>
>>>> When 117 was discontinued, many of the original Rolleis
>>>> were converted to 620 film (which is still available from
>>>> B&H). 620 has a skinny spindle and small flanges like
>>>> 117, but it required a modification of the cameras: a
>>>> different-sized left bump and right key to engage the
>>>> take-up spool. These are the conversion parts I have some
>>>> small hope of finding, if anyone knows of an old Rollei
>>>> burial site where such things can be found.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Years of experience have proved that klutzes like me do
>>>> not work on their own cameras. So I still want to know if
>>>> there's a classic camera repairman who retains old parts and
>>>> skills. (Fleenor and Krikor don't work on these.)
>>>>
>>>> Kirk
>>>
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>>
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Replies: Reply from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))