Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/08/06

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Subject: [Leica] Looser Framing [was Re: recrop: [WAS Re: BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors]]
From: r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:24:51 -0400
References: <65F08CD7-6EB6-417A-89E8-C102AF485B42@comcast.net> <E188C3A8-A11E-4A29-AB70-FDB099ECCD6C@embarqmail.com> <205549.36295.qm@web111802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6434C01A-AB0B-4597-B7AF-1AD971E79B93@comcast.net> <741512.5028.qm@web111810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <F9203C13-2239-4471-9B79-778F725CCFFB@comcast.net> <CDA95A68-4B90-4FF5-8982-CAAC43A1EDCE@frozenlight.eu> <5E31F48F-1A0C-4A1F-A023-B880164ABF9C@comcast.net> <52EF3070-E6A9-4602-88AA-BF2E61DAB38F@frozenlight.eu>

Nathan - Absolutely!  Cropping is often required.  It's just a  
question of how close.

On my part, I'd hate to have to admit how many of these marine shots  
I've been posting have had to be rotated square.  I've found that  
keeping the horizon square from a bouncing boat is virtually  
impossible so I just don't worry about it anymore.   I just frame  
loose to make sure there's enough room to accommodate it.

Regards,

Dick



On Aug 06, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:

> While I appreciate the kind words, Dick, and you have previously  
> commented favorably on my style, perhaps I should clarify that I  
> sometimes do want to crop tightly, for example in the portrait of  
> Bea I posted yesterday (which is a largely uncropped image shot with  
> a 50mm Summilux). But particularly when I am telling a story and  
> each individual picture therefore is part of a context, then I do  
> like to show more of the environment.
>
> Now, I will tell the dirty secret: many of my shots are taken way  
> too loose, for example when I find myself with the 24mm or 35mm lens  
> on the camera and no time or opportunity to move in closer. So what?  
> I just crop as needed in Lightroom. While I am quite minimalist when  
> it comes to post-processing in general (blur filters in PS and the  
> like are an absolute no-no, for instance), I will happily crop away  
> until I like the image. And of course it helps that the image is  
> made with Leica equipment, as it allows more cropping without too  
> much loss of quality.
>
> Nathan
>
> Nathan Wajsman
> Alicante, Spain
> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> http://www.greatpix.eu
> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>
> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I like the looser framing, too.  It's less powerful but more  
>> informative.
>>
>> I have very much taken to heart the advice I've been given over the  
>> years (right back to Ralph Hattersley, remember him?) to move in  
>> close, to isolate the subject, and to reduce or eliminate  
>> extraneous detail.  This does create powerful images.  I also think  
>> that it takes some of the, oh what word to use, maybe "air" out of  
>> the shot.  Framing more loosely seems to give the subject more  
>> breathing room and the observers eye more room to wander.  As long  
>> as there is nothing distracting in the looser frame I think it  
>> makes for more interesting and informative photos.
>>
>> To my mind those rocks take the story of the image beyond the  
>> potential conflict between the big tug and the little sailboat to  
>> include the fact that this potential conflict is playing out in a  
>> very constricted arena with consequences that go way beyond a small  
>> boat being run down by the large tug (as bad as that is).
>>
>> I see this approach in many of your photos, Nathan, and am going to  
>> work on pushing mine in that direction, too.
>>
>> One doesn't need to deliver a sock in the jaw every time out.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 06, 2009, at 1:26 AM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>
>>> I prefer the original version.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>> Alicante, Spain
>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>
>>> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, the value of judging in these contests has always been  
>>>> suspect to me.  It seems to lead to conformity, IMHO.  But that  
>>>> said, I cropped out the rocks.  The result is here:
>>>>
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/rtaylor/PICKS/2009_boating_pad/300_4199_crop.jpg.html
>>>> or
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/l3ltkf
>>>>
>>>> The cropped version certainly emphasizes the anticipated crash,  
>>>> but to my mind loses the piece of information that they are both  
>>>> in a very narrow channel.
>>>>
>>>> It'd be interesting to hear what others think.  Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 05, 2009, at 2:14 PM, Philip Price wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dick, I belong to a photographic society here, ( UK ) and we  
>>>>> have monthly competitions which are always keenly contested, our  
>>>>> regular club membership is 70 /80 members. I regularly enter  
>>>>> prints, with it must be said varying degrees of success ! Over  
>>>>> the years I have learnt to anticipate what the judge will like  
>>>>> or not like, believe me some of them can be pretty ferocious  
>>>>> with their comments ! I do love the drama in your shot but I  
>>>>> know the judge in a competition would probaly comment on those  
>>>>> rocks.
>>>>>
>>>>> As an amateur though I listen, and then go out and do the same  
>>>>> thing again, after all its for my pleasure not some judge who is  
>>>>> definitely not on my Christmas card list !!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy snapping Phil.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:29:11 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate  
>>>>> Sailors
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that's interesting.  I had thought that the rocks and  
>>>>> distant shore added to the drama by emphasizing the narrowness  
>>>>> of the channel in which all this drama was occurring.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for commenting.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 05, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Philip Price wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of drama, and movement in the shot, just a pity about the  
>>>>>> rocks in the bottom right forground.
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Ric Carter <ricc at embarqmail.com>
>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 6:56:56 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate  
>>>>>> Sailors
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ACK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NICE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ric
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We almost never race through Woods Hole Passage on the  
>>>>>>> Weekends.  The powerboat traffic is just too thick and the  
>>>>>>> current usually too strong..  Three Sundays ago, though, the  
>>>>>>> wind was too strong to race in the Bay or the Sound.  So,  
>>>>>>> since the current in the Hole was nearly slack at race time  
>>>>>>> and the boat traffic was nearly nil, we did, only to run into  
>>>>>>> an entirely different obstacle:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/rtaylor/PICKS/2009_boating_pad/300_4199.jpg.html
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/klkd3w
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ever practical, we just raced around them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/rtaylor/PICKS/2009_boating_pad/300_4230.jpg.html
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/mycc4q
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> D300, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> C&C fervently desired.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>>> information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>>> information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>> information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>> information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors)
Message from ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter) ([Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors)
Message from philipprice80 at yahoo.com (Philip Price) ([Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors)
Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors)
Message from philipprice80 at yahoo.com (Philip Price) ([Leica] BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors)
Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] recrop: [WAS Re: BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors])
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] recrop: [WAS Re: BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors])
Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] Looser Framing [was Re: recrop: [WAS Re: BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors]])
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Looser Framing [was Re: recrop: [WAS Re: BOATING PAD #14 - Why Powerboaters Hate Sailors]])