Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/07/10

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Subject: [Leica] speaking of cars violently OT
From: stasys1 at cox.net (Stasys Petravicius)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:58:06 -0700
References: <mailman.1105.1247155246.92465.lug@leica-users.org> <18027.207.238.164.226.1247161962.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <F0AFF028-5906-4158-9675-4A78F0C3A23D@btinternet.com> <ab85ccad5fe50531884d52af0d782baf@cox.net> <8ED93772-6502-430E-AC6C-B536E5B725CB@btinternet.com>

Frank- yours is a good list of "supercars".
Living in Calif, with my fleet- I drive the '85 928s Porsche every day, 
the '91 560 Mercedes coupe on road trips, and the 911 Carrera Cabriolet 
occasionally for fun. I think it is a great car on sportcar roads in 
the country.(not the traffic of Los Angeles). But- I think I need some 
real driving lessons to be safe. Best, Stasys
On Jul 9, 2009, at 10:53 PM, Frank Dernie wrote:

> Pagani Zonda.
> For "frequent" use Ferrari 599.
> For daily use Porsche 911 turbo.
> For pure driving Lotus anything.
>
> There are lots of cars about which have fancy styling and are "2 seat 
> limos" with loads of kit, weight and electronic driving aids to make 
> them easy to drive for less good drivers.
> These are great pose-mobiles and practical for a rich person of 
> limited talent to show-off in.
>
> I may have left some out, I am neither wealthy enough nor interested 
> enough to study in detail. Weight is the most important chassis 
> parameter for performance. Road cars are to a great extent a fashion 
> item and image statement. Published stuff tends to be acceleration and 
> top speed. It is possible to get impressive figures for these without 
> much chassis sophistication at all. Since weight is currently not 
> something fashionable to minimise "supercars" are now as heavy as 
> trucks, hence no longer supercars IMO. This Bugatti thing weighs the 
> same as 2 Ford GT40s!
>
> To put perspective on this, +10kg on a F1 car loses over 0.3 secs per 
> lap.
>
> Frank
> On 9 Jul, 2009, at 19:33, Stasys Petravicius wrote:
>
>> Frank- which are the real supercars today? Stasys
>> On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Frank Dernie wrote:
>>
>>> The laws of physics have not been repealed! With electronic 
>>> stability control and 4WD the car can be made easy to drive. Despite 
>>> high top speed and acceleration in circuit tests it has been 
>>> disappointing compared to the lighter less powerful cars, such as 
>>> the Pagani Zonda. I do not remember where it came in the Top Gear 
>>> track test, but it was not the fastest car.
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Jul, 2009, at 18:52, The Filippini Family, Matt & Blaise wrote:
>>>
>>>> When they tested the hardtop in 2007, Car and Driver (I think, it 
>>>> may have
>>>> been Road and Track) said the Veyron handled as nimbly as a Miata.
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Frank Dernie wrote: <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hate this car. It personifies (carifies???) everything I do not 
>>>>> like
>>>>> in a car. It is very powerful but very heavy. It is OK for posing 
>>>>> and
>>>>> for people who are only capable of what one of my BMW ex-colleagues
>>>>> used to refer to as "linear agility". It requires no talent to
>>>>> accelerate hard, just enough power in the leg to overcome the 
>>>>> spring
>>>>> in the throttle pedal...
>>>>> Compared to real supercars it is poor performing due to its high
>>>>> weight. The hideous engine alone weighs more than a proper sports 
>>>>> car.
>>>>> OTOH the sort of person who can afford one may not be able to drive
>>>>> very well and as a pose-mobile it is probably OK.
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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In reply to: Message from filippini at theramp.net (The Filippini Family, Matt & Blaise) ([Leica] speaking of cars - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] speaking of cars - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand)
Message from stasys1 at cox.net (Stasys Petravicius) ([Leica] speaking of cars - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] speaking of cars violently OT)