Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/05/20

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Subject: [Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?
From: jayanand at (Jayanand Govindaraj)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 06:53:53 +0530
References: <> <> <> <> <> <>

There is nothing for me to add. I use Photoshop because it is good,
and it is the industry standard, and so its portable (one of the main
reasons I use Windows and Office - the other being a lot of the
effects of Microsoft's profitability will be used to try and solve the
problems of the world) - but that does not mean I have to like what
they are doing. To me the ultimate gall in their approach is  to
demand others open up their proprietary information to them, and
create a big hue and cry, while keeping their own in the tightest of
black boxes - so they can continue to charge whatever they feel like.
Graphics is one of the few fields in consumer software where the
prices have stayed very, very high.

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at> 
> We shall have to agree to disagree again then Jayanand.
> Which parts are you most unhappy about?
> Adobe inventing an alternative ?Raw standard usable for basically all Raw
> files that is optional but offers advantages?
> Adobe providing DNG convertor free to convert proprietary formats to that
> standard if you choose? There certainly are benefits ?but if they are
> unimportant for you, of course you won't bother.
> Adobe ?providing free Raw upgrades to allow access to all of those other
> formats as the new cameras emerge? Certainly you need to periodically
> upgrade your Ps to use the latest set of features. Not every version by any
> means.
> Adobe's pricing and qualification policies on software upgrades where you
> are living? I don't know the details on how they differ world wide.
> ?But if you already have the CS3 suite you've purchased quite a lot of
> expensive software. It will keep working just as it does now. The ACR that
> you have recognises all of your NEF files does it not?
> I think only the D3X is missing from support if you have the latest ACR
> upgrades for your CS3
> If you want the new features you can choose to pay to upgrade or ignore the
> new versions if you don't think they are worth the money.
> A lot like whether you have to buy the latest dSLR model surely?
> While I have various versions of the suite upgrades from over the last few
> years, like you I now mainly use Photoshop.
> My several years old copy of PsCS (put aside when I got the Suite later)
> qualified me and worked perfectly for new Ps standalone upgrades.
> I don't understand your evil empire world domination remarks but never
> mind. ?Of course we all have different perspectives and priorities.
> I really don't understand your sympathy for Nikon, as you know. Surely if
> you have say, several thousand Nikon Raw files then the data in those files
> including the encrypted white balance information is YOURS not Nikons.
> That has nothing to do with Adobe providing access to Nikon's proprietary
> formats (and all of the others).
> In fact Nikon and Adobe have released joint statements on their positions 
> on
> this.
> I agree, Nikon is not obliged to allow Adobe access to their code to
> unencrypt the NEF file info. Why would Adobe be obliged to make their
> software open source?
> But if you want to develop your NEF files in Adobe's software then you can
> get almost all of your data (data that YOU own) out of the files.
> The DNG standard is an option. You can obviously ignore it and indeed all 
> of
> the Adobe software if you want.
> I certainly don't understand why you would disparage Leica and Hasselblad
> and Pentax and others for electing to go with the DNG standard.
> What advantage would we get if they following the market giants and
> introduced their own new proprietary Raw formats?
> I have never used the Nikon Raw software. In what ways do you consider it
> superior to Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom for Raw processing?
> In any event everyone will make their own assessment of the importance of
> every factor when they make purchase decisions on cameras and software.
> I was providing an answer for Bob based on my experience and opinion. In
> fact even saying he needs to decide for himself if he thinks the upgrade is
> worth it.
> 2009/5/20 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at>
>> Geoff,
>> I will take the reverse view - the evil empire trying for world
>> domination in graphics is Adobe, and I have no idea how they have not
>> had the antitrust book thrown at them yet. I have the CS3 suite,
>> bought for me by my son's friend who used to work for Adobe here in
>> India - I had asked for the standalone Photoshop, but he landed up
>> with this. To upgrade it to the CS4 suite here they want only the
>> equivalent of US$1200. I use mainly Photoshop, but they refuse to
>> upgrade the one program, and insist that I have to upgrade the whole
>> suite (90% useless to me)! No other company in the world can get away
>> with this sort of pricing and gouging. I have decided to skip one
>> generation.
>> I have total sympathy with Nikon and Canon, and am firmly on their
>> side that their proprietary data is their own. Ask Adobe to make the
>> code for Photoshop open source - will they do it?
>> Leica, Pentax and Hasselblad use DNG because they have no money to
>> support any thing else.
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:15 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at>
>> wrote:
>> > Bob if the camera manufacturers weren't so fond of inventing new
>> proprietary
>> > Raw formats, Adobe wouldn't have to keep reverse engineering and 
>> > decoding
>> > their new formats to provide the upgrades free for owners of Ps. I think
>> > they currently support more than 170 Raw formats. Madness!
>> > That's why we have a DNG format. Thank you Leica and Hasselblad and
>> Pentax
>> > for using it.
>> > Don't blame Adobe for Nikon and Canon's policies!
>> > On hardware any computer that you were happy with for CS3 will work the
>> same
>> > for CS4. They have just added openGL support for the smooth new
>> scrolling,
>> > zooming, flick panning teatures. Any modest half way modern video card
>> will
>> > work. You can see a list of tested ones in Ps support. In fact you don't
>> > want a card with the most on board memory (unless you play games) 
>> > because
>> > you'll have less RAM available to Ps when the video memory is mapped to
>> RAM.
>> > Remember that if you use LR2 rather than ACR you will have the same Raw
>> > upgrades available.
>> > 2009/5/20 Robert D. Baron <rbaron at>
>> >
>> >> Thanks, all, it sounds like the upgrade may turn out to be worth it.
>> >> It does disturb me that I need to spend $200 on this upgrade so I can
>> >> work on the latest raw files (Canon G10 and so forth) and then I'll
>> >> probably need to upgrade my computer as well.
>> >>
>> >> Does it ever stop? ?No, of course not.
>> >>
>> >> In the meantime I'll look for the best price. ?Chris, I'm not a member
>> >> of PPA....I was a member of NAPP but I let it expire. ?I know they
>> >> offer a discount but I can't remember how much. ?I'll give them a call
>> >> tomorrow and maybe they'll tell me as an enticement to re-up.
>> >>
>> >> --Bob
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Leica Users Group.
>> >> See for more information
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cheers
>> > Geoff
>> > 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends'
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See for more information
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See for more information
> --
> Cheers
> Geoff
> 'Life's not B&W, except at both ends'
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information

In reply to: Message from rbaron at (Robert D. Baron) ([Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?)
Message from hopsternew at (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?)
Message from rbaron at (Robert D. Baron) ([Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?)
Message from hopsternew at (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?)
Message from jayanand at (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?)
Message from hopsternew at (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Photoshop CS 3 to CS 4 Upgrade Worth It?)