Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/03/18
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]All this talk about peaches and the country prompts me to offer a revision.... "throw out the TV, go to the country, eat some peaches, listen to Lynnard Skynnard and look for God" > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:23:45 -0400 > To: lug at leica-users.org > From: chs2018 at med.cornell.edu > Subject: Re: [Leica] French to legislate image retouching > > That's "throw out the TV, go to the country, eat some peaches, and look > for > God" > > At 01:31 PM 3/18/2009, you wrote: > > > > >>But what do you do about tv? > > > >"throw out the TV, eat some peaches, and look for God" - John Prine > > > >>Leo Wesson > >>Photographer/Videographer > >>817.733.9157 > >>www.leowessson.com > >> > >> > >>On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at > >>gmail.com>wrote: > >> > >> > Hi Chris, anecdotally that causal connection seems commonly > >> accepted. I do > >> > realise that you have just provided a link and mentioned the causal > >> > connection. This is not meant to be negative regarding your post. I do > >> > think > >> > it is an issue relevant for everyone with a digital darkroom and > >> > worthy of > >> > discussion. > >> > This link is a practical example that we have shown our daughter. > >> > http://demo.fb.se/e/girlpower/ad/retouch/index.html > >> > Here this issue has been raised to an extent, with a voluntary code > >> > for > >> > women's magazines especially, to follow. Another related issue is > >> > minimum > >> > age and weight standards for fashion models. Following media attention > >> > stirring popular opinion, some successful European models have been > >> > withdrawn from high profile shows here on age or weight issues. Yet > >> > we > >> have > >> > 13 yr olds launching successful careers from cover photographs on Teen > >> > magazines. > >> > Your linked article doesn't contain any actual facts or detail, as is > >> > common > >> > for this kind of op ed piece. I want to avoid straying into areas such > >> > as the quality of media reporting, perceptions arising from > >> > advertising, > >> > personal responsibility and liability. > >> > I do have reservations regarding effectiveness for any legislation to > >> > require disclosure on retouching. > >> > > >> > Here are some points that come to mind for me: > >> > A meaningful disclosure on any fashion image would be complex and > >> > large. I > >> > don't see that as practical at all. It could easily double the size > >> > of a > >> > magazine for example. > >> > A generic warning (similar to a product health warning) may not be > >> > effective > >> > at all. It would realistically have to say that EVERY image in the > >> magazine > >> > has been altered. The effect of such a warning label might be, more > >> > in the > >> > nature of "look we are doing SOMETHING" . > >> > Would the magazine just provide links where the information could be > >> > obtained? Would anyone go there except people interested in the field > >> > perhaps? > >> > Since many magazines are international in distribution, this could > >> > negate > >> > any national legislation anyway, editions unaffected by such > >> > legislation > >> > could be more desirable (cheaper? smaller? ). > >> > What about television and movie content? Do we require disclosure > >> > when a > >> > "stunt butt" stands in for the leading lady for unclothed scenes? > >> > Should disclosure extend to all printed or displayed images? > >> > Who sets the standards and for what contexts? > >> > What would be the cost of implementation? Would there be practical > >> > benefits? > >> > > >> > You can see how these ideas can balloon out of all proportion. > >> > > >> > In my opinion, this sort of issue sounds like a great idea at first > >> > glance > >> > but is grossly impractical to actually implement. Do you have any > >> > professional insights on practical effects or implementations that > >> > you are > >> > aware of? Can you share any views on what you think is appropriate or > >> > how > >> > that causal link could be approached? > >> > > >> > I sometimes take photos of my children (a lot!) and their friends if > >> > it is > >> > a > >> > party or similar. > >> > I've posted probably a 1000 or more images to the list (not only those > >> > subjects of course). All of those images have certainly had at least > >> > some > >> > modification with photoshop. > >> > Here's a more dramatic example, just for purposes of discussion that > >> may be > >> > of interest. This is a young teen friend of my daughters. There were > >> > also > >> > gross problems with colour from the original processing (colour neg) > >> > and > >> > prints from them. > >> > The result pleased me,the subject and her family and I don't see any > >> > negative impact at all. Put in another context you could argue that > >> > it is > >> > unrealistic, promotes unhealthy expectations, negative body image > >> > etc. I > >> > see > >> > it as making an attractive and positive photograph. > >> > > >> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/a/ns/DLoriginal.jpg.html > >> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/a/ns/DL.jpg.html > >> > A retouching disclsure would be extensive and detract from the appeal > >> > of > >> > the > >> > photo too. Yet it included a bw conversion with contrast, individual > >> colour > >> > conversion adjustments, obviously removal of skin imperfections, > >> > lines, > >> > texture and luminace, eyes altered in shade, detail, sharpness, tone > >> > even > >> > highlight adjustments, localised focus adjustments throughout etc etc. > >> > I think that the viewer can look and is well aware that the photo has > >> > been > >> > idealised. Similarly, surely people in general are aware that all > >> > printed > >> > photgraphs are subject to entensive modification before publication. > >> > There > >> > are millions published every year. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > 2009/3/18 Chris Saganich <chs2018 at med.cornell.edu> > >> > > >> > > Another reason I like the French. As a Public Health Professional > >> > > I do > >> > see > >> > > a thread through image retouching, negative body image, and > >> > > psychological/physical harm through the entire population. > >> > > > >> > > < > >> > > > >> > > >> http://video.nytimes.com/video/playlist/opinion/op-ed/1194833176718/index.html#1194838469575 > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Leica Users Group. > >> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Cheers > >> > Geoff > >> > 'Pick up your Leica and make the best photo you can' > >> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/a/ > >> > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Leica Users Group. > >> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Leica Users Group. > >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > >Chris Saganich MS, CPH > >Senior Physicist, Office of Health Physics > >Weill Medical College of Cornell University > >New York Presbyterian Hospital > >chs2018 at med.cornell.edu > >http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/ > >Ph. 212.746.6964 > >Fax. 212.746.4800 > >Office A-0049 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Leica Users Group. > >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > Chris Saganich MS, CPH > Senior Physicist, Office of Health Physics > Weill Medical College of Cornell University > New York Presbyterian Hospital > chs2018 at med.cornell.edu > http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/ > Ph. 212.746.6964 > Fax. 212.746.4800 > Office A-0049 > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Life without walls. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009