Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/12/04
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]While most concepts and techniques involving darkroom work I am very familiar if not very experienced in: The "randomness and approximation of the traditional methods" goes over my head. What is it? Not knowing what you're doing and thinking that's a good thing? The decades I've spent in the darkroom "randomness and approximation" have had little to do with it I think. mark@rabinergroup.com Mark William Rabiner > From: Geoff Hopkinson <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org> > Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 08:00:27 +1000 > To: 'Leica Users Group' <lug@leica-users.org> > Subject: RE: [Leica] David and confused > > Chris it is DIFFERENT and requires a different skill set to get the best > from it. Naturally it is just as relevant as it ever was. I was expounding > on the possibilities of digital Raw capture for BW of course. > I'm better with that skill set than the film one. > > > Cheers > Geoff > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman/e > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ > Pick up your camera and make the best photo you can. > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: RE: [Leica] David and confused > > So I suppose there is little argument even for B&W film any more. Perhaps > the randomness and approximation of the traditional methods will remain a > strength for some. > > > At 11:24 PM 12/3/2008, you wrote: >> YES!! Someone else gets it! >> Even better, when you get to Raw files in CS4 there is even more >> functionality (for colour and BW) in the form of adjustment brushes and >> targeted adjustments and snapshots that let you save all of the >> development settings and new camera profiles and... Oh just try it out >> if you want a good insight. You can get a 30 day trial from Adobe, I'm >> sure. Check out some of the Adobe tutorials too. >> Absolutely compose and visualize the photo as a BW from the start, if >> that's how you prefer to work, that makes perfect sense when you've >> seen patterns and contrast and textures, shapes etc that you know will >> make a great BW shot. Just capture all of the colour information that >> gives you the possibilities to do all of the above and a lot more. You >> can easily use combinations to simulate a specific film too, if you want. >> >> >> Cheers >> Geoff >> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman/e >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/ >> Pick up your camera and make the best photo you can. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Subject: Re: [Leica] David and confused >> >> The issue to me is that doing black and white is not a mouse click away. >> Its a lot more hands on involved than that. >> The mouse click away indicated you've just changed it into grayscale >> like in Photoshop 4 or 5 a few years ago. >> >> And now you open up a file in CS3 or I assume CS4 I've not quite got >> yet and you've got an HSL/Greyscale panel with 8 color sliders on it >> with presets and things you can load in and or save. As you're working >> these sliders and preset you see the various elements in your image, >> the sky the foliage the bricks change as you do it. So things are >> separated out they way you want them to be. The way you'd never get >> them to be in a million years shooting film. >> >> Or you can open it up in full color. >> Go into the menu adjustments / Black and White. >> Here you've got the color sliders again but much better set up presets. >> particularly >> Green filter, >> Infrared >> red filter, yellow filter >> High contrast red filter. >> >> After you hit a preset you can then tweak the 8 color sliders till your >> picture is filtered perfectly. >> >> Its like dying and going to heaven. >> A black and white photographers dream come true. >> >> And the bad part is.... >> There is no bad part. >> >> >> >> >> mark@rabinergroup.com >> Mark William Rabiner >> >> >> >>> From: Philippe AMARD <philippe.amard@tele2.fr> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org> >>> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:32:14 +0100 >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Daved and confused >>> >>> Hi Dave, >>> I understand your qualms. >>> In many ways, your own brains decide. BW or colour, who cares so >>> long as you still decide what pleases you better. >>> Yet, everything starts with visualisation; light, shapes, people, >>> places, etc - the rest is only technology, i.e. immaterial and can >>> be changed, at any time. >>> It also ends up with you, you seeing what has come of your >>> endeavour, and often another person visualising your end product - >>> and this is also what matters. >>> I am unsure the subject can be tackled differently, in photographic >>> terms I mean. >>> So no qualms - visualise, shoot, make the most of the neg/file/0 >>> and1s to your taste, and please our eyes with beautiful never seen >>> before, and never to be seen again photographs. >>> Bien amicalement. >>> Philippe >>> >>> David Rodgers wrote: >>> >>>> Perhaps this is too deep a subject for a shallow mind such as mine, >>>> but when I first learned photography I was taught that >>>> visualization >>>> -- the process of imagining the final print before snapping the >>>> shutter -- was essential to good photography. It was difficult, but >>>> made a little easier because your scope of visualization was more >>>> narrow. For instance, you were pretty much locked into the type of >>>> film you were using. >>>> >>>> Certainly you could cross over from BW to color using Marshall Oils >>>> or the opposite direction using Panalure, but how common was it to >>>> do so? I think I used Marshall Oils one time and I still have >>>> leftovers from my first and only box of Panalure. >>>> >>>> Now we can switch back and forth -- and I do it often, from color >>>> to BW and back, at least -- with a mouse click. Since nearly all >>>> digital begins in color (I'm not diciplined enough to shoot in >>>> monochrome >>>> mode) it's almost like I'm admitting defeat when I determine that >>>> an image can't make it as a color image so I try and dress it up a >>>> little in >> BW. >>>> >>>> Thus when I shoot digital I feel like I'm a color photographer who >>>> uses BW -- aka zero saturation -- as a crutch to make bad photos >>>> that have some compositional merit but are colorly challenged, into >>>> mediocre photos; sometimes even really good BW photos, if I'm lucky. >>>> I can even hide unwanted artifacts....even noise. >>>> >>>> Has happenstance replaced visualization? Is this even something >>>> worth discussing? WWAS? (What would Ansel say?) Was visualization >>>> merely a fancy metaphore for "you're stuck with what's in your >>>> camera, so make the most of it". >>>> >>>> There was a day when I'd have given my eye teeth to have someone >>>> come up to me and offer a magic film that could be either color or >>>> BW at the snap of my finger. After all, visualization was a tough >>>> thing for me to grasp. Sadly, now that I'm an old dog I can't >>>> ungrasp it. I'm conflicted and confused. What's that old saying? >>>> Careful what you wish >> for..... >>>> >>>> DaveR >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > Chris Saganich MS, CPH > Senior Physicist, Office of Health Physics Weill Medical College of Cornell > University New York Presbyterian Hospital chs2018@med.cornell.edu > http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/ > Ph. 212.746.6964 > Fax. 212.746.4800 > Office A-0049 > > > > > > > > > "I am the radiation" > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information